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Your dog is drowning and so is a stranger.........

Discussion in 'Dog Debates' started by deezuhl, Sep 22, 2012.

  1. APBT Courage at its Best

    APBT Courage at its Best Little Dog Premium Member

  2. Fieldmarshal

    Fieldmarshal Big Dog

    Your basically asking to choose between something that affects just you vs something that affects not one but potentially many other lives other than yourself....So yeah, the right thing here is to choose the unselfish option.

    I cannot let my selfish desire to save my dogs which really only affects just me from not saving a person, who's life may affect a lot of others, and in on to itself would be the right thing to do.

    I would put my dogs above my own life, but i would never put my dogs life above any other persons life. So if it was me or the dogs, i would save the dogs, but if its another person, even a stranger, i am going to get the person first, then the dog.
  3. TannerG

    TannerG Boss Member

    Y would u put ur dogs life above ur own but not a stranger? That doesnt make sense to me
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  4. CallSignOWL

    CallSignOWL Good Dog

    by your own reasoning that does not make sense. You would save the stranger because their death would affect so many more lives, but would give your own life for your dog.... Wouldn't you dying also affect many other people (friends, family, etc)?
  5. Jazzy

    Jazzy GRCH Dog

    What if you save the life of someone who turns out to be a seriel killer? Or a child molester? Or the next person to enter a public arena and open fire? Or the person with HIV who neglects to tell their multiple partners that they're infected? Or the alcoholic who doesn't get treatment and the next week kills a family of 6 in a DUI?

    See, the thing with people...is it's a crap shoot...saving the person is not always the unselfish choice, and the way in which they impact other people in their lives is not always positive. What if you save the father who beats his son daily, or the son that murders his elderly parents to get money for drugs?

    I may be selfish, but I can certainly rationalize it well enough to sleep at night. :sonn_u11:
  6. MJJean

    MJJean GRCH Dog

    Me, too!
  7. pampam22

    pampam22 Good Dog

    I would definitely save the stranger and I would hope a stranger would do the same for me. I love my dogs and I generally do not care much for people but I couldn't live with myself knowing I gave up on a person's life to save a dog.
  8. dogeatdog

    dogeatdog Good Dog

    WOW if the majority (even minority) of strangers you meet are as you described, you should really move.
  9. Jazzy

    Jazzy GRCH Dog

    I've been in human services for over 20 years. I've seen ALLOT.

    Every once in awhile I am awed by a person who is a shining example of what humanity should be. Someone who impires me to want to be a better person.

    Mostly I try to clean up the messes made by people who have in one way or another been horribly abusive to other people in one form or another.

    I also work with people who have in their lives done...bad things...to other people, to children, to animals...

    See it, hear it, deal with it...4 days a week, 10 hours a day.

    I'm certain it affects my perspective, but it is the reality I see everyday...

    animals innocent; people...not so much.
  10. Fieldmarshal

    Fieldmarshal Big Dog

    Your ignoring the fact that whatever i decide to do I do it out of my own personal choice. I can make the decision to risk my life for a dog or another human being, even if the consequence of that is that i lose my life in the process, i still made the moral choice that i put something else selflessly over myself. Obviously my loved ones are not going to like that choice, but they know that its a choice i consciously made and it would be up to them to respect that. On the other hand, the person who is say drowning didn't make the choice to drown, and they are not in a position to save themselves even if they wanted to, so if i am given the opportunity to save this person, i would have to do the selfless thing and try to save them.

    If your going to add the extra layer and say, you have to choose between the dog or the person, i don't even have to think about this one, i already know i would risk my life for both, so that aspect is out of the equation when it comes to my decision. I will 100% of the time pick the person, because first and foremost i am trying to do good for the sake of doing good, unlike saving my dogs because the fact that i did the good deed of saving my dogs is a mere consequence of my own love from them. So the good deed is not a end on to itself. Also, on the big picture, a person does affect more than just themselves, and saving them is a greater good than saving my dogs, who just mostly affect just me.

    Yes you go ahead and have a little mental argument with yourself on all the what if scenarios...and how the cosmos might align based on your choice....by the time you have solved your intellectual quandary...the person/dog might be dead...and hey...the problem just solved itself huh

    Since your going on what ifs...make sure you never ever have children....because what if..they turn out to be any of those things you mentioned...you never know...so lets be safe here..
  11. Jazzy

    Jazzy GRCH Dog

    I'm not "what if'ing" - I'm saving the dog...I thought I made that perfectly clear.

    Thank you for the advice on having children. You'll be happy to know that I decided early in life that I did not want children; and well...let's just say at this point, that ship has sailed. But as you said, having children is a crap shoot as well; I can't tell you how many people I see in therapy that are there because they are 1. having issues with their adult children or 2. are adults having issues because of their parents - either from childhood or from the present.

    I think having children should be a truly selfless act; but generally it isn't. (But we don't need to start that debate here - that deserves a thread of it's own).
  12. shakou

    shakou Puppy

    I'd call 911, and save my dog. I'm not so self righteous and cold to play the "It's a stranger, I don't know them" card as if implying they are worthless and deserve to die, but a person has a much higher chance at surviving once the ambulance arrives. My dog doesn't.
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 28, 2012
  13. Fieldmarshal

    Fieldmarshal Big Dog

    Where exactly did you make anything clear in the post you responded to me with?...

    None the less, I don't care who are what your saving...i never replied to you posts about your choices(nor have i seen them)...you did to mine with the nonsensical what if scenarios...like we all have magic powers to know exactly what the some person you saved might turn out to be....maybe you have a pocket crystal ball you have that you take around everywhere...unfortunately we don't. So i am just going to use my moral compass, i don't really care who is drowning, the right thing to do would be to try and save them.
  14. TannerG

    TannerG Boss Member

    maybe you should go read her post again
  15. Jazzy

    Jazzy GRCH Dog

    My apologies; thought you had been following the entire thread.

    I did in earlier posts make my position clear.

    My response to your post was a challenge to your logic. If you simply said "I would save the human because I believe human life to be of higher value than that of a dog" I wouldn't have commented. That would be your opinion.

    However you seemed to be stating that you valued the human life more than that of the dog because of the connections that that human had to other humans and the more significant and far reaching their loss may be. That may also be your opinion and you are entitled to it.

    However, being as this is in the debate section I was under the impression we were all engaging in a free spirited and healthy...debate; therefore in the spirit of said debate I was pointing out a potential flaw in your logic.

    You said "I cannot let my selfish desire to save my dogs which really only affects just me from not saving a person, who's life may affect a lot of others, and in on to itself would be the right thing to do."

    That flaw being, your logic only works if the human you choose to save is truly a good person who touches others lives in a positive way. That is an assumption and not a given. If the person you choose over your dog, in fact turns out to be someone who touches others lives in negative ways, then your reasoning is null and void and perhaps choosing the dog would have been the more moral or ethical choice.

    I am not "attacking" you personally. I am under the impression that if we all just state out opinions without bothering to engage each other and challenge those opinions...then it is not actually a debate.
  16. HatterKat

    HatterKat Puppy

    Having been in this position due to Daphne's seemingly need for "Action First, Logic Later!" motto in life I can say I chose to save the dog (mind you she's my boyfriend's dog and not mine) rather than save the person who was struggling in the river. However, while I will be the first to admit that I am selfish person (did not want Jesse mad at me letting Daphne commit suicide by jumping into the river and sinking like a rock {i thought all dogs knew how to swim, boy was i wrong}) I also had logic (or rationalized it for myself) on why I didn't even attempt to help the struggling person. #1 being you never know when someone is attempting to end their life and to interfere with such matters could bring potential lawsuits down upon yourself. Yes if they do die you have to live with that, but while it is a sad world where people can say "It's not my problem" or "I helped, because I would want someone to help me if it ever came to it" it is a general rule of life. You cannot please everyone, you cannot live your life trying to make everyone happy- if you do you set yourself up for failure and you run the risk of leading a miserable life.

    It all comes down to personal ethics and morals. I rescued Daphne from the bottom of the Rio Grande (6 feet deep at this odd little curve and the current was strong) and when I surfaced a Park Ranger was there to help me. I got Daphne out of the river and pointed the Ranger to the other person. So I guess I did help the other person, but it's not my job to save them. And I am not ashamed to say that. It's my job to protect my family, and my dogs are apart of my family.

    dog vs stranger = dog.
    dog vs human family member= human family member.

    and that's my opinion.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 1, 2013
  17. deezuhl

    deezuhl Little Dog

    And i was told this scenario couldnt happen in a million years.. ;)
  18. TannerG

    TannerG Boss Member

  19. HatterKat

    HatterKat Puppy

    Well, in Daphne's defense, she's never see water outside of the water bowls and the bathtub before. So when I took her to the river she just jumped right in with my other dogs. My two came back up but she didn't, I jumped in after her and found her at the bottom. Poor girl sunk like a rock, but the good thing was she didn't thrash about, I think she was a little shocked by the whole ordeal.
  20. bringbackup

    bringbackup Big Dog

    Let's say the dog is removed from the equation, and you didn't have to chose. Would you still jump in and save the person?

    Personally, I wouldn't. I am not physically equipped (size-wise) to attempt that without surely killing myself. I'd do the best that I could; yell for help, throw a floatation device, call 911, etc but I would not get in the water.

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