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Why do so many hate the HSUS?

Discussion in 'Dog Debates' started by buddysmom, Feb 29, 2008.

  1. simms

    simms Good Dog

    Here it is...LOL. I dont take thing's to personal or I dont hold a grudge with a debate or discussion. It's ok to dissagree an it's ok to sling a little around provided it doesnt break the forum rules. :cool:
     
  2. buddysmom

    buddysmom Good Dog

    OK cool ... so now that it's in the Debates section where it belongs, let's take this back up again (and I will try to be more civil :) )

    First let me say I do not think you are indifferent to animal abuse / neglect. But you do seem less concerned about it than most, if you would rather there be zero animal protection laws, no A/C, no ASPCA, etc. Because that's all there is.

    Sure there are bad laws, even deplorable ones. But as citizens we need to work to get the bad laws off the books. To denounce ALL animal protection laws, and all groups and people who work to enforce them, that is to say you would rather trust everyone not to beat or starve their animals because some of these same groups might infringe your right to breed, that is selfish. IMO
     
  3. Cynthia

    Cynthia Good Dog

    I worked for a SPCA in Colorado Springs. they claimed to be a no kill shelter and for the most part they were except "pit bulls" and "pit" mixes. The director hated them. Proper medical care was not provided except the directors daughter (who worked for a vet for 2 years) saying give this and that. Now they are no longer there because they did not provide the service they offered. They also served as a AC at the same time.

    Now I do believe the HSUS is a joke. And Rockstar posted a thread about John Goodwin on here. They are a money hungry organization that actually does little to help animals. Raked up alot of money in donations from the Vick Case and I only believe they got involved for publicity.

    I do believe in animal welfare. Animal rights is a joke.
     
  4. huskylove

    huskylove Guest

    I want to clarify one thing, the ASPCA in Manhattan is it's own entity, and not affiliated with any other SPCA, so if one should donate to them, please understand that it does not get spread out. The A is a fairly good operation, and exceptionally well funded (like to the tune of being 40 million + in the BLACK), but they also are big advocates of pit bulls and other so called "dangerous" dogs and do not hesitate to adopt them out if they can pass a temperament test.

    As for my own take on HSUS, I think they're a joke. We do need "watchdog" organizations to help strengthen animal welfare laws and help them get enforced, but why in the hell should the head of such an organization be paid $165,000 a year is beyond me. Wayne Pacelle does squat to earn that money, other than to be the pretty face of the group, they do no actual "sheltering", no financial help to those who actually do hands on work with animals, no speuter programs, nada.
    So what's the money going to??
     
  5. simms

    simms Good Dog

    I beleive in animal welfare, i have a different aproach to it.
     
  6. fearlessknight

    fearlessknight Good Dog

    As much as I HATE to say it.....I agree! NO matter how many laws you put in effect and how much they TRY to stop it....it will never work. There are too many people out there doing it, and unknown. Drugs are illegal....but they are still sold and taken everyday. There are laws against it, many many many laws, but that does not and WILL NEVER change the fact that people do them and sell them. Same as with Dog fighting and animal cruelty....Do I like either one? I hate people that think they are bad ass motherfuckers, cuz they can beat up on a dog......:mad: I mean how big does that REALLY make a person?! :confused:
    If dog fighting were legal, I would not have a problem with it....but it is in fact ILLEGAL, do I agree, maybe not, just as I do not agree that I should have to wear a seatbelt if I choose to not do so, but I will then get a ticket, suspended DV...etc etc......so I fucking wear one!
    Just because one does not LIKE the laws, does not mean that they should not ABIDE BY THE LAWS!
     
  7. CoolHandJean

    CoolHandJean Krypto Super Dog

    I agree with you on this, FK.
     
  8. buddysmom

    buddysmom Good Dog

    1. To clairify this is the ASPCA I refer to, its policy page below. It has a strong base in New York City where it was founded, but is considered a national organization.

    http://www.aspca.org/site/PageServer?pagename=pp_content


    2. I don't think new laws are needed. But IMO there are good laws on the books and these need more teeth and enforcement. I do not agree that we don't need laws at all. If they provide a deterrence or measure of justice even a small percentage of the time, at least that is something.
     
  9. fearlessknight

    fearlessknight Good Dog

    I didnt look at the link, but to comment on what you said about thinking we need some if it would deter to some point......

    I am am open to that, because there are some laws we need.....I mean hubby and I were talking about this yesterday in fact while we were on a road trip......
    There are SOME rules that will always need to be in play....but others are just another way to dictate the world......BUT.....as fas as I am concerned my life was dictated since the very day I was born, as was yours!
    Why:
    We all had parents, they had rules, we were told when we could eat, when could sleep, when to take a bath, when to play, what to wear, what not to wear, what not to say, what to say, how to act, how to play, how this how that, why this why that, do this, do that, you can't this and you can't that.........and on and on and on and on and on and on.........until we were no longer under that roof........
    So when we escape THAT roof, then we have that of the worlds roof to live under....it will never change, it has not yet....rules have always been a way of life, and IMO they always will.

    Did I agree with all of the RULES my parents had? Not exactly, but did I obey them? Yes for the most part, because I knew what the consequences were if I did not. I waited until I was 18, only to live by another set of rules..........same as we all do! And will do until the day we die!
     
  10. buddysmom

    buddysmom Good Dog

    LOL .... well this is all true and I have always thought there are too dang many laws on people in general; did you see the report last week that one out of 100 U.S. adults are now in jail? That is mind blowing.

    Of course the topic simms and I were debating is those laws that are designed to protect animals from abuse / neglect.
     
  11. fearlessknight

    fearlessknight Good Dog

    Yes, i understand what you are saying, but if those were not in place, then the people would not get jail time, or anything else, because they would be breaking no law.....The ONLY reason half of the laws do any good are for that reason alone. They do not prevent people from doing anything, they only allow the system to punish you for breaking them.
     
  12. buddysmom

    buddysmom Good Dog

    Oh I see what you're saying. I agree the deterrrance factor is weak or nonexistent with any law. (At least in the U.S. where we theoretically have no "cruel or unusual" punishment).
     
  13. simms

    simms Good Dog

    Abuse comes in many forms. There are some ppl that are just not right in the head, no doubt shouldnt have a gold fish to care for. Animal abuse in most common cases, comes from ppl that just dont know any better. They dont understand that there are basic set of required needs that are to be met under current law. These folks dont even realize that ppl are watching them and for the life of them couldnt figure out why they would. They worried about making thier monthly bills or what ever challange life as thrown thier way.

    Recently I had the pleasure of getting to know some clients a little better than some times I care to. These clients are great! they realy apprieciate the value and joy that thier pets bring them day to day. However with in the last year thier family had to make some hard choices. The Mr had developed cancer and had to under go treatment. That put the family in financle stress, they had to re- budget re- prioritize. The dogs fell short on that end . Knowing the risk they decided that HW prevenative and vaccines were not a priority at that time. ....A year later they came in and got up to date on thier vaccines and were tested for HW, well they were both positive, since then both have recieved treatment. Some of my coworkers accused them of being neglectfull and abusive despite thier circumstances. Had a handfull of ppl or the Dr's known what the deal was we would have gladly donated the HG and vaccines. Thankfully nothing had happened with those aniamls during the time that they were not current on vaccines. My point is, abuse and neglect comes in different forms. Yeah this was probably one of my nicest stories to share.

    Got yard work to do.
     
  14. CoolHandJean

    CoolHandJean Krypto Super Dog

    So true.
     
  15. GHOST

    GHOST Puppy

    this is one of the biggest reasons i've seen of neglect is someones finances gots to pot,,,i've took a dog or too and helped a few out that was in this sitution,,,, like when a dog gets into a yard accident,,,and is cut up ,,, how do you think the vet feels when you take it in there? Do you think he won't pick up a phone?? i can tell you,,,they want to ask questions,,,truth is its not really they're business but to do the service your paying them to do,,,,did you catch the phrase-your paying- but everyone want to make it there business,,,

    the aspca and hsus,, is a bunch of overpayed and overrated ppl.. look at the shear fact of the money they have that could help these ppl with some dogfood,,, but no,,, they take them and put them to sleep and call you a sorry mofo,,,, someone needs to get they're facts straight
     
  16. Dixiegal

    Dixiegal Puppy

    Actually, they gave our state (Louisiana) over $6 million to build a new shelter after Katrina. They also went all over the Gulf Coast giving grants to shelters who offer low cost spay/neuter. I have very mixed feelings about them, but they did help us out.
     
  17. Miakoda

    Miakoda GRCH Dog

    I would like proof of that.

    On the contrary, the state of LA has a lawsuit pending against the HSUS for some ruthless and unethical actions taken by their representatives in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina & carried out at the Lamar Dixon center.

    I remember vans operated by the HSUS coming and ONLY wanting "pit bulls." They gathered as many dogs as they could, "pit bulls", Rottweilers & Rottie mixes, and loaded them up and took off. They played the nicey-nicey game by taking pictures of each dog with an identification number before they left, but lo-and-behold, we never saw those dogs again. We had a few owners identify their dogs as those the HSUS people took, and they were never able to contact them or find out where the dogs had gone. The HSUS screwed owners over and made fools out of us. It got to the point where we had the National Guard members turn away their vans at the gate. They weren't allowed near the barns.

    And sadly, the HSUS spent some of their enormous funds to send me a rinky-dink certificate "thanking" me for my work there. It got burned. Gleefully.

    And if they did provide funding for spays/neuters, it's only because they believe in the extinction of pets as does PETA.

    Hell, this is the same group that firmly refused to help out cattle ranchers in Colorado & neighboring states after severe blizzards hit the areas back in late 2006 and early 2007. They said they could not in good conscience help feed those animals who will only later be killed to be used for human consumption. So instead, they sat back, collected donations, watched t.v. on their giant plasma televisions in their expensive homes while thousands of head of cattle starved to death. Now that's the definition of "humane", eh?
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2008
  18. Dixiegal

    Dixiegal Puppy

    I don't know what kind of proof you're looking for - the shelter staff at the SPCA told me about it, and it's listed on the HSUS financials for 2006, I looked it up a long time ago when I first heard about it. I didn't know about any legal action taken by the state, except for Charle's Foti's "inquiry" - don't know how that went.

    Miakoda, I don't expect you or any pitbulll owner to like HSUS - but it is what it is. They gave $$ to our shelter. You asked for proof. You're welcome to look it up yourself. :)


     
  19. maryellen

    maryellen Good Dog

    the only place i will give donations is the aspca in manhattan, the place they show on animal precinct in nyc... they are FOR pitbulls, and show it on their shows. its the one huskyhouse was talking about.. other then that forget it.

    as far as the HSUS , there are articles of them being sued for what miakoda said..

    which is very sad... all anyone has to do is search for articles on the HSUS on the internet and you will find a ton..
     
  20. Dixiegal

    Dixiegal Puppy

    I knew that our attorney general was looking at them after Katrina, are you talking about something else? I hadn't heard that. And no, I don't give them $$ either - I donate to our SPCA here. They do adopt out pit bulls.
     

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