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Why Did We Change The Bull Terrier?

Discussion in 'Bull Terrier' started by Hucklebutt, Oct 18, 2009.

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  1. Schwe

    Schwe Good Dog

    The photos are from the early 90's. "Nicey" (BT's name) was one crazy bitch. She ate Christmas ornaments off the tree and chewed on beer bottles. The stories I hear from my mother are all about how she was a handful. :lol: When my family left the Ukraine to come to the states, they left her with close friends for fear of the "pit bull" problems the US was (is) having. It's a damn shame that I was just a toddler when we had her and that I didn't get to grow up with her. Her personality sounded like something I wouldn't mind having around these days. :)
  2. Mrpedigree

    Mrpedigree Big Dog

    I love looking at old pics of EBTs...i have some of my grand father with his dogs back in the 1970s...i keep meaning to buy a scanner but i never get around to it:(
  3. Schwe

    Schwe Good Dog

    You can get an all-in-one (scanner/printer/copier) for cheap these days. Christmas is this week! :D
  4. Hucklebutt

    Hucklebutt Banned Back Yard Breeder

    hahaha she sounds crazy!! I really enjoy the old pictures too! Mrpedigree you need to get a scanner so we can see them :D
  5. Schwe

    Schwe Good Dog

    Found another one. :) Nicey and her son.
  6. Hucklebutt

    Hucklebutt Banned Back Yard Breeder

    thanks for staying on topice schwe. i would love to know what lines that female is from.
  7. Schwe

    Schwe Good Dog

    Unfortunately we'll never know. :(
  8. Hucklebutt

    Hucklebutt Banned Back Yard Breeder

    she never came with any papers?
  9. Schwe

    Schwe Good Dog

    If she did, I have never seen them. Remember, we gave her up before leaving Ukraine to a friend.

    I found some more BT pictures from the 80's! I'll post them in a few.
  10. Hucklebutt

    Hucklebutt Banned Back Yard Breeder

    DANG!!!!!! I really want to know who here relatives are!! post the pics!! :D
  11. Schwe

    Schwe Good Dog


    Unknown family BT's

    back of this photo says 5 months old.

    Unknown puppy
  12. Hucklebutt

    Hucklebutt Banned Back Yard Breeder

    OMG OMG OMG!!! I love them!!!!!!!!!!! I am utterly shocked at the quality of Nicey. She must have been something else back at that time being as she is the kind of bull terrier most show fanciers strive for today, and to see it than, must have been surreal. Alot of people today don't have that quality bull terrier. And it shows how wide and heavy they were even than. I really apprechiate the pictures!!
  13. Schwe

    Schwe Good Dog

    Thinking back, the photos were from the late 80's, not 90's. :)
  14. Hucklebutt

    Hucklebutt Banned Back Yard Breeder

    thats awesome!
  15. Debbie

    Debbie Good Dog

    I love the old pics Schwe...thanks for sharing ! :sonn_u11:
  16. Schwe

    Schwe Good Dog

    I spoke to my mother last night. She said she doesn't remember her pedigree or registered name. But, she did say she was the first tri female in Ukraine (my mother flew out & imported her). :)
  17. Hucklebutt

    Hucklebutt Banned Back Yard Breeder

    she bought her in the US and brought her to the UK? Or she bought the first in the UK and brought it to the US? Dang how much was she? well, my male is a tri so i guess she must be related to him somehow lol!!
  18. Schwe

    Schwe Good Dog

    My family is from Ukraine... born & raised. My mother went to, I think Moscow, to buy Nicey as a puppy and imported her into Ukraine. She was the first tri bitch in Ukraine. I don't remember how much she paid for her, but she said that when she tried to bargain over the price the breeder told her to just take the dog for the price and get the hell out or she'd change her mind. :lol:
  19. Hucklebutt

    Hucklebutt Banned Back Yard Breeder

    :eek: oh shit! lol!! thats hella funny. i think i like your mom if shes another bull terrier lover. =)

    I bet people were freaking out to see a tri than too!!
  20. Barry Taylor

    Barry Taylor Puppy

    Where to begin with the parlous state of the modern Bullterrier? Firstly, I understand that a highly charged dog with drives that can be utilized for work can be viewed as a dangerous thing in modern times, not to mention the fact that a calm or diluted version of the old dogs is much easier to sell to a lot of people, so there are two additional reasons to add to the excellent posts already contributed by everyone's favourite pantomime villain, Mr Clueless.

    It is my belief that drives have been extinguished intentionally for monetary reasons by the Show Fancy and I am no longer shocked like I was back in the 80s when I hear Bullterrier owners eulogizing their dogs "He never gave me a bit of trouble, he was the perfect ambassador for his breed etc" as if they were talking about a little lapdog (yes, because so deprived of drive and fervour for life that the poor thing just slept it’s life away before dying of heart problems at the age of 10, and didn’t have the spirit to get in any supposedly typical Bullterrier scrapes along the way).

    For many people this is what it has become, a gentle oversized Pug or Pomeranian. This is supposedly the same breed that is well documented as accompanying many an intrepid Englishman back in the days of The Empire, with legendary swashbuckling tales ensuing. I know that today in 2009 it is a different world, but what I don't understand is this fascination with exaggerating an already ludiscrously exaggerated breed, both physically and temperamentally.

    Where do BT breeders stand in regard to the Bulldog? Do they consider it an abomination to nature? But it's OK to send the Bulldog's terrier cousin down the same road by breeding for increased size, a more parrot-face and less athleticism and zero drive? I’m ashamed to say I have a morbid fascination in finding out just where this Show Fancy vanity will end, although I must say I do pity the dogs who are the victims in this morally bankrupt mess; all for the reputation and ego of the breeders with their coveted champions.

    Just as worrying as the crimes of The Fancy is the denial by others: “There’s nothing wrong with the contemporary Bullterrier, it’s the lazy owners”. This doesn’t add up on any level. Why are other breeds not afflicted by this to anywhere near the same extent? Why are there threads on many other boards dealing with the issue of indolent Bullterriers that don’t even want to go for a walk? I know of people who bought into this “Bullterriers are active dogs, always on the go” nonsense, who became exasperated by the lack of “go” in their dogs. Dogs that had no spirit of adventure beyond their bed or the food bowl. Absolutely driveless. Also, the existence of working lines that still display tail chasing and other neurological disorders shows that there is more at play than just lazy owners. These dogs are worked hard as farm and catch dogs but still they show these crazy behaviours. What a diseased breed! Many, if not all, lines are saturated with illnesses, both psychological and physical. Good job, guys!! Let’s only leave the sofa to chase our own tails.

    There are obviously a few still about with a bit of zeal for life but generally this breed is so close to the abyss it’s frightening ( please read BT forums to get an idea of health issues prevalent in the breed and as for life expectancy, they accept the loss of their 10 year old dogs as being an inevitable consequence of old age. Old age for me in a healthy driven dog is 14 or 15, not 10; but, hey, the breeders have only had 150 years to perfect the Bullterrier so it’s still a work in progress and they’ll all live to 20 soon as the breeders are experts in genetics and know everything about healthy, sporting dogs). The breed’s in safe hands and everything is fine in Bullydom because there’s one in San Francisco that does agility and I saw on You Tube a dog in China that caught a big rat, or another one goes visiting sick kids in hospital. What lofty standards we are holding this once sporting icon up to!

    Whenever people argue that there is no problem in the breed they ALWAYS put up Jake the hog dog in Texas or the Bullterrier vs Toro scene from Mexico, or perhaps bitingbullterrier’s Kaiser (yep, he really is a superstar on a number of boards!). Three examples of dogs doing something does not equal a robust and virulent breed. If I picked up a pit cross from the pound and it didn’t catch hogs I’d be disappointed. Heck, my mate’s Boxer/Greyhound does it with ease!

    Another aspect that doesn’t help us truly understand the current state of the BT is the “internet whispers” factor. Somebody goes to Poland or Argentina or New Zealand or Brazil and they see a couple of good, athletic examples doing a bit of work ( it could be some kind of catch work but more usually is a very mild activity such as an agility course that a Basset Hound could do quicker). Before you know it, this anecdote has been spun into:

    a).There is a line or strain of good BTs- perhaps used as catchdogs- in aforementioned country. This gathers momentum and soon mutates into;

    b).There is a game line of BTs there. Again, this hyberbole ends up;

    c).This area is awash with game BTs, therefore, the breed is dynamic and amazingly athletic etc.

    What started out as some honest guy commenting on some general utilitarian dogs, or maybe just a marginally less corpulent little fat pig than the normal examples we see waddling around the show ring, has magically transformed itself into crawling-game dogs thanks to a couple of teenagers on the internet who have never even visited said country. This perpetuates the lie that the Bullterrier is still a vibrant breed when in actual fact it’s knocking at death’s door as an athlete or sporting animal. The absolute paucity of such dogs in the breed does not inspire confidence, and just because there are 4 or 5 on a few internet forums means precious little for the future of the breed in my opinion and is certainly no cause for celebration.

    I would love to be proved wrong and for somebody to show me some meaningful numbers of fit Bullterriers but I have been around the breed for nearly as long as everyone’s best mate, Clueless, and I despair at the current specimens I have seen from Brazil and USA to France and UK both in and out of the show world.

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