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Who's to blame? It's all in Black and White!

Discussion in 'Dog Debates' started by Billy J, Feb 5, 2008.

  1. Billy J

    Billy J Guest

    200 to 300 puppies X 30 TOP APBT breeders in the US = 6000 or 9000 pups a year in the US! I guess we all know who is in the top 10 don't we? Thats a no brainer. Theres no wonder when people start passing along any helpful information that helps some poor soul that's about to fork out a chunk of change for a over rated pup we get slammed! Because that's bad for your puppy peddling Biz for that poor sucker to find out it's all a bunch of HYPE!!!

    I would say 8 out of 10 of the ones that buy from the breeders above will have that pup bred within the next 2 years and not have a damn clue what they are doing and hence make a new BYB. Stop blaming the BYB and blame them bastards that don't do anything but breed and sale to the BYB's across the nation and around the world. I thought about this one before I posted it so if you don't agree take me to pm. But I am right and we all know how it really is so lets stop fooling around like we don't know.
  2. AnnieC

    AnnieC Good Dog

    Most reputable breeders may have MAYBE one litter a year....not to mention they tend to be picky as to whom gets their pups. They are not the problem, they breed to better our breed. It is the BYB's and puppy mills that are breeding like that and selling the puppies to more BYBs. Anyone with common sense could figure this one out.....
  3. Billy J

    Billy J Guest

    Name me Ten top breeders in the us with 30 plus years with the APBT!

  4. Billy J

    Billy J Guest

    Thats a bull crap excuse if there ever was one! It's because people are selfish and don't want anyone else to over breed their production record. This breed needed no help 40 years ago but the all mighty dollar made people better the breed to what we have today. People breed to better their garbage and try and make it smell better.

  5. Michele

    Michele Chi Super Dog Administrator

    Slick: I agree with you.

    If the breeders were more careful to who they sold their dogs too and kept track of all their dogs and bred the way they should and screened the potential owners better and didnt give new owners breeding rights, then that would of helped. But, unfortunately reputable breeders who follow the breeders code of ethics are few and far between. And I only know of one breeder who bred true to standard and who followed the breeders code of ethics to the tee which included titling and health testing her dogs who is now dead. www.hartagold.com
  6. screamin'eagle

    screamin'eagle Good Dog

    I agree with this also. It has become apparent to me that many of the guys that are placing ads for their breedings in the ABDA Gazette (for example) for the last few decades are doing as much if not more damage than the byb's as you stated.

    There has to be a statement made about not selling a pup to every idiot with an income tax return check that is looking for a "well bred dog."
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 5, 2008
  7. Zoe

    Zoe GRCH Dog

    The breed has become a cash crop. It's that simple. These breeders are no better than the puppy millers. It's all about the $$. Not one of them give a damn about the breed. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that over population and greed is what is killing our breed. Who cares if Joe breeder idiot can buy a hummer off a litter or two though. Ching and bling. *eyeroll*
  8. Billy J

    Billy J Guest

  9. Pit Bulldog

    Pit Bulldog Little Dog

    Perhaps that is true. But when I am looking for a particular bloodline or a cross I'd rather go to a top notch breeder who has 10-60 dogs on his yard and who breeds more than one litter per year - reason? Quality control. I suppose my point is that there are plenty of reputable large kennels that breed multiple litters and produce awesome dogs. I hope we aint slamming those folks.
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 7, 2008
  10. CoolHandJean

    CoolHandJean Krypto Super Dog

    I get the Iwanna, and when I read the "pit bulls" for sale section, I never know whether to laugh or cry with the stuff they put in there. It's like they find all the popular names and throw them together. it's so disturbing.
  11. fearlessknight

    fearlessknight Good Dog

    Now, there is what I agree with....BUT

    There is also some that go OVER BOARD! meaning those that have 60 litters a year!
    Hell if I had 60 litters in one year, i am SURE I would have SOME good dogs come out of it!
  12. annji

    annji Little Dog

    What about all these so-called reputable breeders that have their dog for stud? I can think of one kennel that has four males listed on it. Plus they have 2-5 litters that they sell every year. I don't recall seeing any requirements for these stud dogs to be bred to another dog, just a cash fee. Ka-ching!
  13. bahamutt99

    bahamutt99 Stealth ninja

    I wouldn't call a breeder "reputable" in those circumstances. (All males at stud to any female, 2-5 litters, etc.) At any rate, there is a decided difference between a reputable breeder and a top numbers breeder. Most of the reputable ones don't make it into the top numbers because they simply don't breed enough.
  14. Billy J

    Billy J Guest

    At least you hope so right! Lol If you bred all that and did not get some good dogs then I say a man has wasted a lot of money on piss poor dogs to peddel for Tax time!!!

  15. buddysmom

    buddysmom Good Dog

    Let me ask though, say you went to a yard that had dozens of puppies on site to choose from ("you" being general, anyone who might consider doing this) ...

    And say you found the "perfect puppy" there which is possible of course. Would you care at all what is going to happen to all of the other non-perfect puppies they are producing? Would you really feel comfortable giving them your money and thus supporting them creating scores of "throw away" puppies in their breeding program?

    Or, be honest here ... would you just take your perfect puppy home and be happy?
  16. DieselDawg

    DieselDawg Good Dog

    The problem is whether you are reputable or not...once that pup leaves your yard you would be hard pressed to keep track of it...agreement or not. If prices went WAY UP for a top pup, it might stop a few from buying but now the BYBs would be charging more to match the "market" with inferior dogs. You hate to bring up any kind of "Shutting Down the BYBs" with some kind of strict guidelines because it tends to ignite BSL Fears. It almost seems impossible to close the floodgates now.
  17. fearlessknight

    fearlessknight Good Dog

    Well Iam not sure if I undestand you correctly or not, but I would never hand over my money to someone of which I did not support 100%!

    If they got my money, they got my support! All of it! And I do not support puppy peddlers or BYB's!
  18. Pit Bulldog

    Pit Bulldog Little Dog

    Why would the other pups be non-perfect pups? Are they crippled? If a breeder had a litter of 'throw away' pups then they should not be selling them but should euthenize them.

    Generally my criteria for choosing a breeder is as follows: unless you have been breeding for over 25 years and have a good reputation amongst other breeders for the quality of dogs that you produce I aint getting one of your pups. And, none of this research is done on the internet. Its all person to person.

    Oh yah, I visit yards too even if I have to fly cross country to do that. So you need to have a clean yard, healthy looking dogs, no unstable weirdo's etc etc. So if this criteria is met and you have the bloodline I am looking for I will get one of your pups and will happily hop along home not worrying too much about the rest of the litter.

    Oh yah, I forgot, when choosing a pup I generally rely on the breeder to match me up with what I am looking for cause I could care less re color and cool patches on the dog. I figure if you been breeding your line of dogs for decades you probably know better then I ever will re how different pups are gonna turn out.
  19. buddysmom

    buddysmom Good Dog

    By non perfect I mean what most would consider pet quality. I am really responding to your earlier post where you said:

    And yes I suppose I am slamming "those folks" because they appear to be going for "quality through quantity." Sure they wil get some exceptional working or show prospects but I bet they are making plenty of pet quaity ones in the process. And there are so many pet quality APBTs in shelters is irresponsible to flood the "market" with dozens of them a year. If they cull it is marginally a better scenario but still pretty gruesome IMO.
  20. Pit Bulldog

    Pit Bulldog Little Dog

    You do not know which breeders I am talking about so your quantity through quality and flooding the market comments are way of the mark. If these breeders could flood the market that would be the best thing for the breed. And oh yah, they cull so much that I cry at night. My pain is eased a bit by knowing that through intense culling they are able to consistently produce nice doggies.

    I doubt there is a single breeder in the world, whether its dogs, horses, chickens, or cockroaches, that can produce exceptional quality of whatever he is breeding in every litter. So beware of anyone who tells you that every pup in the litter is going to be a show champion or the best hog dog, or agility dog that ever walked the earth. Run and keep running if they tell you that.

    But in my opinion 99% of folks breeding these dogs should stop right now and 80% of folks who own this breed shouldnt and the world would be a much nicer place were we could all hold hands and sing "coombaya my lord coombaya" or "if i had a hammer i'd hammer in the morning ....blah blah"

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