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Which would you choose?

Discussion in 'Today's APBT' started by XXX, Aug 24, 2008.

?
  1. Super rough, hard mouthed dog

    27 vote(s)
    20.0%
  2. Deep game dog

    108 vote(s)
    80.0%
  1. Cream is Pitbulls

    Cream is Pitbulls Little Dog

    Its all about that Gameness with me
     
  2. joshelkins23wv

    joshelkins23wv Little Dog

    Axiom - SOUNDS LIKE U HUNT..GOT ANY RABBIT DOGS OR HOUNDS? THE WAY UR TALKING BOUT MOUTHS AND STUFF SEEMS LIKE UR A RABBIT OR COON HUNTER MAYBE> OR AM I TOTALLY WRONG ?LOL
    JUST ASKING
     
  3. Axiom

    Axiom Puppy

    Everything I typed was all hypothetical and based on conversations and things I read. I only participate in legal activities such as hunting,weight pull and conformations shows. No rabbit or coon humting though :)
     
  4. mr.clueless

    mr.clueless Good Dog

    Although i think you make some good points in your post i disagree with this above.i have heard many many people say the same over many years but i believe just the same as you get freakishly hard mouthed dogs occasionally you will get freakishly game dogs.out of many many dogs years ago i knew of at least 4 that spring to mind straight away that no matter what would not stop within the normal confines of dog matching.yes i dare say if you put 7 different dogs on them while hog fat for 30 minutes each the chances are they would stop.but then i dare say if you went at them with an axe knife and machine gun fire they would probably stop also.you have to keep it real and within the normal confines of what a dog will have to take these 4 dogs could be trusted day in and day out not to quit.
    then again i have my own theories of what a real game dog is and a dog that doesnt quit is not necessarily game in my opinion.
     
  5. woody d

    woody d Big Dog

    dogs have good days and bad(just like us)...and they ALL will quit on a bad day
     
  6. mr.clueless

    mr.clueless Good Dog


    sorry friend but you are wrong.
     
  7. woody d

    woody d Big Dog

    how do ya figure?
     
  8. mr.clueless

    mr.clueless Good Dog

    because there are dogs that simply will not fold within the normal confines of a match or game test and can be trusted day in day out.
    they are very rare but no more rare than a freakishly hard mouth destroyer.
     
  9. XXX

    XXX Good Dog

    I gotta disagree with you Clueless... they aren't machines they can all quit. Look at all the dogs that were Grand Champions and quit... thats why so many guys that got their GR CH retired the dogs. Cause if you lose once you're back to being Champion....

    GR Chi Chi... prime example. Seven straight wins and not against slouches. Stands the line the 8th time out... they all can quit.

    Sure there is the VERY rare dog that doesn't know how to quit.... but for the rest of them... they can all quit.
     
  10. mr.clueless

    mr.clueless Good Dog


    im afraid its not up for discussion if you know what i mean ;) i am not a bullshitter and i dont tell lies or make things up....i am telling you there are dogs that did not and would not quit in a roll test or match.....these were not necessarily great or even good match dogs one of these was a son of limey knls nelis a simple 1 x w....but im sure there are plenty more but like i say not necessarily great match dogs....for sure there are many ch,s and gr ch,s that would and do quit and unfortunately the matching of dogs does not always bring about the true honesty of a dogs character.i have seen 2 and been told on good authority about 2 others that although not great match dogs for different reasons were simply mentally unbreakable.many dogs game test is the hardest thing they ever do i dont think thats good myself ( dont leave your best fight in the gym ) but its a fact.
    but even this i dont automatically class as being " game " in the truest sense of the word it just means there mental spirit was unbreakable.its often not a pretty sight and often unecessary but by the very definition of their breeding they are likely to crop up from time to time no different to running dogs ive known several lurchers on a daytime hare literally run themself to death because there mental will was too much for their physical state.its the height of an already heightened trait.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 29, 2009
  11. skinny

    skinny Little Dog

    So what your saying not even an IDIOT could make these dogs quit ie......looking at them too over weight not in fair shape 80 degree heat nothing poor feed keep ect.......ect......ect the list could be a mile long I think where there is a will there is a way too many variables I think any could quit under the right circumstances or in the hands of a fool......JMHO
     
  12. woody d

    woody d Big Dog

    Thats right man, it was as much the handler/conditioner as it was the dog.
     
  13. XXX

    XXX Good Dog

    Gotta agree with Skinny here.... Clueless... you're telling me that someone couldn't take one of these unstoppable dogs and screw up a keep with them... bring them in too light... treadmill the mouth out of them... or breed the male the day of the show, or some other big mistake the owner or handler makes... and they still wouldn't quit?

    Guess I would have had to have seen it with my own eyes...
     
  14. Jelet

    Jelet Banned

    I sort of agree with mr clueless. Even though I am new to the "game dog world." So I am not some old expert on this

    But.. that being said .. I believe 95% of the dogs will quit under the right circumstances..




    In my opinion.. I think even with poor feed and conditioning, a true gamedog will only quit because it physically does not have any stamina left to pass the scratchline due to lack of energy and conditioning. And that is acceptable to me , when it does not have the energy to move and pass the scratchline because of not being conditioned and not being given the proper nutrients..


    Some examples of what i call the right circumstances to quit is like.. hmm

    If a gamedog is poisoned, where he was disoriented.. And it quits. I will call that an acceptable quit. Because of the poisons and such in the body. messing with the dog..

    Or If the dog was having a heat stroke, and when released he started staggering around. Then that messes with the dog aswell, if you know what im saying.



    But I personally would call Chi Ch a curr. Chi chi, a very good dog, but chi chi DID quit, thus making it a cur.. However, . .I dont think you can throw this type of dog in the "a cur is a cur" pile, but the fact remains that it QUIT..

    I would call the dog a rank cur.




    Anywho. Thats just my thoughts on this subject.. i sort of agree with clueless...

    ---------- Post added at 05:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:11 PM ----------

    What exactly are you guys considering a "quit"

    1.a dog that has the energy to walk around but does not fight.

    2. or a quit that a dog has no energy left to move and quits.


    because I would agree with yall if its #2. they arent machines and dont magically get stamina if you mess with the dog and give it shitty food and no exercise ect.
     
  15. XXX

    XXX Good Dog

    I was once told by an old dogman.... if the dog is standing on all four feet on its own, with its eyes open there's no reason it shouldn't go.....
     
  16. Axiom

    Axiom Puppy

    They are flesh and blood and just because you never saw them quit don't mean they won't. I stick to what I said earlier... on a given day they are all capable of quitting. We can all speculate about the reasons why.
     
  17. mr.clueless

    mr.clueless Good Dog


    no thats not what im saying at all.if you read my first few posts on this thread you will note that i said " in the normal confines " in other words under normal circumstances of what a dog is likely to have to take.
    yes of course if you mess the dogs keep up bring him in over or under weight and any number of mistakes but i am talking about all things being equal.obviously it could get silly and you could say the dog will quit if you cut both front legs off before matching him but im saying within the normal parimeters of a show roll or gametest there are dogs that can be trusted day in day out not to quit.but i say again that doesnt to me necessarily represent a game dog.
    there are many dogs that do not quit but are simply lying there taking it that to me doesnt represent a truly game dog it just represents a dog of implaccable will.a truly game dog will always be trying to win and think he is winning even when he is losing badly and these are the dogs that are often lost by a handler who doesnt realise what he has in front of him.

    ---------- Post added at 02:13 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:03 AM ----------

    yes they are all capable of quitting but there are a tiny percentage that just wont no matter what.of course if you never saw them quit doesnt mean to say they wouldnt but what are we supposed to do if a dog never ever once gave any impression he would stop ?
    these dogs might be game losers or not even match quality 1 of the dogs i mentioned had such a soft mouth and low intelligence he wasnt a match prospect but there was absolutely no quit in the dog.this is where we get back to the terminology.there are no dead game dogs alive so we have to use common sense in describing the level of a dogs gameness without killing him first and i say again there is a very small percentage of dogs that will not quit under normal circumstances.yes you could no doubt make them quit if you wanted to by putting 6 dogs on them 1 after the other but thats just not realistic under the normal confines of battle dogs.
     
  18. Laced Wit Game

    Laced Wit Game Good Dog

    hmmm as what would i want in a match? gameness or hardmouth??.....you know what NC, i cant really say right now ima sleep on it and give it an answer tommorow!
     
  19. mr.clueless

    mr.clueless Good Dog


    Again you have to keep it realistic.some would say if a dog quits he is a cur but is a dog that quits in 30 mins having taken very little the same as a dog quitting in 2 hours smashed to pieces no of course not.there are different levels of cur the same as there are different levels of game.
    i believe there are 4 main levels.
    1. a dog that flat out quits is either cold or quits quickly.
    2. a dog that has match level gameness he will give his best for the first hour and if thats not enough will quit ( this group probably represents 70 % of match dogs )
    3. a dog that has a high level of gameness and will go beyond number 2
    4. a dog of implaccable will who will not quit under the normal confines of a match or test ( probably less than 2 % of dogs ) many dogs from this group will be lost by a handler and afterwards described as a " dead game dog "..............but while alive can only be described as a deeply game dog.
    anyway thats only my theories and the way i see it

    ---------- Post added at 02:44 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:31 AM ----------

    one last thing before i go out :D

    we always used to compare it to testing the reliability of a motor car.
    you wouldnt leave a plug cap off the engine or have low oil level before taking a car for a long drive to test for reliability would you ?

    you would have the car in good order at the correct running temperature or anything else just would not be a fair test for reliability.
    same with a dog......you could probably MAKE that car break down with poor care or a mistake the same you could with a dog...but you have to keep it realistic.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 30, 2009
  20. IronChef

    IronChef Big Dog

    They might all quit under the right circumstances (Who knows, for sure), but there will always be a stronger dog with a harder mouth, better wind, and more skill. Ya can't beat 'em all...
     

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