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What makes dogs different from 'food' animals?

Discussion in 'Dog Debates' started by Poisoned, Jan 7, 2013.

  1. Poisoned

    Poisoned GRCH Dog

    I don't think so. Dogs for one, breed faster than sheep. And we always see lamb chops in the meat and produce area of our grocery stores. Sheep generally have 2-4 labs per year. Whereas a dog could have 1-3 litters per year, with anywhere from 1-10 or more puppies at a time. Dog farms in other parts of the world function fine, aside from the horrible cruelty. And just like some people don't like the gamey taste of some animals, I'm sure some people wouldn't like dog. But anyone I know who's eaten dog prepared right said it was really quite good.

    I think it really is something aside from the ease of raising and selling that stops humans in this part of the world from using dogs for food.
     
  2. Sagebrush

    Sagebrush Good Dog

    Why do you keep dogs and not deer, horses, dolphins or pigs?
     
  3. Poisoned

    Poisoned GRCH Dog

    Because I was raised around dogs and got to grow up being bonded with them and I will always want a dog around, and I'm sure I'll always be that way. I've always loved animals, but it's illegal to own many of the 'farm' type animals I would like in this area, can't even own a chicken. So I'm pretty much stuck with small mammals and dogs until I can move somewhere where I can legally own pigs and other animals like horses and bulls and what have you.

    Why do you keep dogs?

    *edit
    Well crap , I replied before you edited your post.
    But my reply actually seems to answer you added on edits too, so I'll leave it.

    *edit2
    And I would never own a dolphin even if I were rich enough to house one, because I don't believe they should even be kept captive.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 8, 2013
  4. Sagebrush

    Sagebrush Good Dog

    Well, I think your answers are a good clue to why dogs are are so well thought of in this culture. They are easy to have at hand and, ADAPTABLE to our human condition. That, it seems to me, goes a long way to describing the basis of why DOGS and only DOGS have the relationship they DO with us and why they are "special".

    Carla
     
  5. MJJean

    MJJean GRCH Dog

    The bottom line here seems to be that we don't eat certain animals and we do eat certain other animals because that is how we were programmed by our culture to think and feel.

    And our culture has changed a lot. We went from someone in our family slaughtering our dinner and no one feeling bad about it to that being a rare thing in less than 100 years. Hell, 100 years ago people in the city would still purchase a live chicken from a vendor, either kill it themselves or have the vendor kill it in front of them and take it home to prepare for supper.

    My grandma was born in 1908. She was an adult during the Great Depression. we talked about it once when I was a kid and I'll never forget her talking about friends and neigbors going hunting to the point where game became scarce and then starting to eat rats, cats (stray and pet) and dogs (also stray and pet) as a pretty common thing. People were so desperate that they were happy to have any meat at all. And these were middle class Americans just like us.

    I don't mean to step on anyone's toes here, but I would bet my bottom dollar that if it came down to you or your kid literally starving you'd slaughter a dog or ask someone to do it for you so fast your head would spin. And I am pretty sure my grandmother did the same thing many other people were doing. She never explicitly said it, but I bet not a lot of people did mention it once the Depression was over. I kinda wonder if that's why she spent the rest of her life taking in and raising a herd of formerly homeless dogs and cats. Because maybe she felt real bad about what she ate to survive.

    Yeah, yeah, I'm sure a lot of people would like to think there would be some other option if we went into another long term financial and agricultural disaster (don't forget the Dust Bowl happened during the Depression making food scarce and even more expensive when people could least afford it), but the world is not that kind of place and sometimes there aren't any options outside starvation.
     
  6. Poisoned

    Poisoned GRCH Dog

    Good answer, Sage.

    I think rats would be a lot more popular as pets if they lived longer. It's pretty much like having a less obedient puppy that you can keep in a cage. But as humans we don't want something that smart and personable that you bond with so easy, that is going to die in under three years, most of the time. There are even service rats, I believe the one I'm thinking of detects his owner's seizures, and he just rides around on her should while she's out with his little leash and harness on.


    Dogs have been so popular in this part of the world for so long. Even the people who are cruel to them and abuse the heck out of them, kill them for no damn good reason, don't see them as anything close to food. And I think it's because we humanize them so much. Every darn commercial with a dog in it shows them talking, thinking like people, acting like people, we have shows dedicated to the first few weeks of a puppy's life, narrating it like they're a very smart kid.

    Same goes for cats.

    We have so many darn movies with horses, and dogs and cats as the main humanized character. My favorite movies growing up were the Homeward Bound ones, with the Golden Retriever, American Bulldog and the Himalayan cat who are just furry people throughout. And I think all of this constantly being in our faces has made people put dogs in a category above other animals, and just below humans - most of the time. A LOT of kids' movies involve humanized animals, dogs mostly. And most kids I know seem to think dogs are furry damn people.

    And I have NO idea what I'm talking about, this is just my theory. And I know it's probably not correct, but it's only my opinion and I'm not asking anyone to believe it. :lol:
     
  7. JoeBingo

    JoeBingo Banned

    I find this disgusting and disturbing. Some would not.

    If you are vegan, vegetarian, find meat disgusting or find the eating of dogs disgusting, do not click on the link. Otherwise, it's educational and provides a listing of countries/cultures around the world that don't think twice about eating dog.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog_meat
     
  8. MJJean

    MJJean GRCH Dog

    Forgive the black humor, but eating dog would certainly solve the packed shelter problem.

    I mean, shit, if millions of dogs are going to be killed every year anyways they might as well provide hungry people with sustenance.
     
  9. LilianaLove

    LilianaLove GRCH Dog

    I don't.

    Economies of Scale (helpful video included): Economies Of Scale Definition | Investopedia


    According to this website (and there is really no unbiased source of information on factory farms), there are 9 billion chickens produced per year in the US through factory farming: Chickens on the Factory Farm

    ASPCA information on dog/cat statistics: ASPCA | Pet Statistics

    According to the ASPCA, there are ~78 million dogs owned as pets, and 86 million cats, with 5-7 million dogs and cats entering shelters every year. Estimates for stray cats almost meet those of house cats, of 70 million cats.
    If we look into puppy mills: ASPCA | Puppy Mill FAQ

    If there are between 2,000-3,000 puppy mills, and let's give them the benefit of the doubt and say they can house 1,000 dogs, with say 75% of those dogs being brood bitches, and each bitch being bred 2-3 times per year, that's 2,250,000 brood bitches with litters averaging (Litter Size in Dogs
    ) approximately 5 puppies each litter, you're looking at 33,750,000 puppies out of puppy mills each year.

    So let's take all of this probably biased but easily found information and do the math.

    There are approximately 85 million dogs in the US (that's the high end of the spectrum if we include strays). 33,750,000 are from puppy mills. Dog "factory farming" produces 39% of dogs in the US.

    My point? 9 billion factory farmed chickens compared to 33.75M factory farmed dogs. Would this change if dogs were used as a staple food product? I'm sure the number would increase. But by 266x? I don't think it's likely.

    There MUST be a reason that puppy mills only produce so many puppies per year. If they could sell more, they would. But there must be a reason why each mill does not contain 1000 dogs, there must be a reason why only about 2/5 of dogs are produced through factory farming. If it was so efficient to breed dogs, in my opinion, we'd see a much higher percentage.

    It seems to me, however, that the economies of scale for chicken farming are far greater than those for dog farming. Now, I'm basing this off of two different reasons for farming, but the fact that these animals are farmed is still the same.

    Dogs were and are used as a food product, and yet we do not see them as a staple diet in any culture, even cultures that eat them. There must be a reason for this.

    It is simple that 'food animals'- poultry and herd mammals- are more apt to produce more for less. If this was not the case, we'd be shipping dogs over to africa instead of chicken eggs.

    Take from it what you will, but I will never be convinced, even if people started eating dogs, that dogs would be a more economical choice of food over chickens and cows.
     
  10. LilianaLove

    LilianaLove GRCH Dog

    Some British humour:
    [video=youtube;63NNuG-6-hQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63NNuG-6-hQ[/video]
     
  11. Poisoned

    Poisoned GRCH Dog

    I understand your points. Do you personally see a difference? I don't know your eating habits, but if you do eat meat - would you eat dog if it was raised and slaughtered humanely? And obviously didn't taste bad. Nobody wants to eat something that tastes icky.

    My 11yo niece's opinion just now when she saw the doggy platter - face included - from Joe was that pigs and dogs are different to her, not economically, because she's friends with dogs. And if she lived with pigs and got to love them too, she wouldn't eat pork anymore. She pretty much summed up what a bunch of adults say. They feel like its wrong, or even betraying, to eat something that of the same species that they're bonded with. Most people don't understand the cost of raising dogs for meat, or any other animal for meat, so that really doesn't factor in for them.

    While we're on the topic, and I'm actually asking, why do you think we don't see more rabbit meat for sale? They breed.. well, like rabbits, are are not hard to keep or raise to an age for slaughter. They're small, yes, but I see Cornish Hens at every Wal-Mart and Food Lion, and usually not cheaper than a whole chicken.

    That video.. :lol: That was great.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 8, 2013
  12. LilianaLove

    LilianaLove GRCH Dog

    As far as rabbits and other small rodents, I wouldn't find eating a rabbit to be all that bountiful. Unless you genetically modify them, there's not a lot there. Compare the amount of meat on one rabbit to that of one cornish game hen. Look at the weight distribution between each. Rabbits are actually hard keepers, especially for the inexperienced, and carry communicable diseases that hens don't.

    As far as personally seeing a difference between eating one animal over another, I don't see one. I would never eat my pet, be it a dog, a cat, a fish, a snake, or a bird. But I own a parrot and I eat chicken, I own a snake and I'd eat frog legs if they were fried enough, I own dogs and I eat other mammals. Hell, I'd eat dog if you served it to me right. But I would never eat my OWN chicken, or my OWN snake, or my OWN dog, because at that point they do hold a different meaning.

    But I don't see animals as precious beings deserving of life and undeserving of being eaten. Just because it's an animal of a certain species in which certain (not all) cultures keep as pets doesn't mean it shouldn't be eaten. Look at Indian culture and their revere for cows and compare it to American culture and their revere for eating cows.

    Every culture is different, every way an individual in each culture sees animals is different. There are people in India that eat cows, even though many areas in India ban the slaughter of cattle.

    Call me uncaring or lacking empathy, but I couldn't give any less shits about what you choose to eat, as long as you are not illegally taking someone's property. Eat dogs, just don't steal my dogs to eat them. Eat chickens, but don't steal them out of my coop. That's how I see the world at least.
     
  13. Poisoned

    Poisoned GRCH Dog

    I don't think you're uncaring or lacking anything.. That's just your view on it and it's fine. I have no room to judge anyone. I guess I'd probably try dog if it looked good and I knew he didn't suffer to make it on my plate - I know some places think you must torture the dog first to make it taste good. Yikes.
    Which is pretty contradictory of myself, since I eat the chicken, and give it to my dogs, from big slaughterhouses.


    I couldn't eat my own animals. I'd definitely eat squirrel - but if I caught someone trying to eat MY squirrel, we'd have a serious problem. And I couldn't eat my own squirrel.
    I couldn't eat anything I've raised and loved. I have a hard enough time putting them down for good reasons, humanely.
     
  14. Jazzy

    Jazzy GRCH Dog

    I think what we eat has mostly allot to do with culture: what's "acceptable", available and what we grew up with.

    As someone else already mentioned: culture at times allows us to be hypocrites - at least I am talking about myself - I am a hypocrite in this area. I value all animals but I will eat some meat and I actually occasionally go out of my way to get a a good hamburger or a fillet - however they are magically transported to my table and they look nothing like an actual animal.

    If they did, or if I personally "knew" the animal they were - I couldn't eat it, I would lose all desire and the meal would become completely unappetizing...in fact I think I'd throw up in my mouth a little bit. (Unless of course I were stranded and straving, but then rest assured I could just as easily eat any one of you under those circumstances as well).

    But what makes one animal different than another? I think if I grew up being fed dog as a toddler and keeping "house monkeys" and everyone around me did that...I'd pretty much think it was..."normal"...and would probably continue the practice...at least to a certain extent.
     
  15. Tahlz

    Tahlz Good Dog

    I see no problem with people eating dogs or cats, my problem is how they are normally tortured before they are killed. Some people here have made a good point, if homeless shelters/places were given dog meat to eat, we'd have a lot less hungry people because we have so many dogs that are put down daily.

    I'd never eat dog/cat or any other type of animal that is out of the 'norm'. I still feel sorry for these animals that are killed and eaten but what can you do. They all deserve a life to live.
     
  16. E Diggy

    E Diggy Big Dog

    It's a completely societal issue. Hindus think it's horrible to eat beef. Are they wrong? Koreans eat dog and have no qualms about it. Are they wrong? Truth is there certainly is no right or wrong here without being completely ethnocentric. I couldn't eat a dog or a cat, but I'm an American. It would be too weird for me to endure. I do understand people from outside of our cultural norms that would. I hope that Hindus understand that for non Hindus, beef is just meat. It's all where and how you were raised. I draw the line at cannibalism. That's a whole different argument.
     
  17. MJJean

    MJJean GRCH Dog

    Umm, no. That's one of the biggest falsehoods almost everyone believes.

    There is no right to live for any species, ours included. There is nothing that deserves to live, humans included. Never has been, never will be. That's not how the natural world works. Things are born and things die for a variety of reasons. Sometimes it's illness, sometimes accident, sometimes hungry predator and so on.

    This whole idea that any creature has a right ti a life or deserves to live is just laughable and shows how we lack an understanding and a relationship to nature.

    Nature is brutal. If you are edible something will kill and eat you if it can.
     
  18. BigOlePits

    BigOlePits Puppy

  19. MJJean

    MJJean GRCH Dog

    I knew about horse being legal again. Evangers dog food made with horse meat in the cans has started appearing on the shelves after disappearing for a few years. My brother swears that the horse and the rabbit meat version make his dogs coast shine and they love it. I bought a couple cans a while ago as a treat for my dogs. They inhaled it.
     
  20. HatterKat

    HatterKat Puppy

    In the Native culture, some tribes are known for eating dogs- The Sioux were one of the tribes who ate dog meat when food was scarce. It was taboo in the sense that we are not suppose to consume of the meat of an animal who eats meat itself, but when food is scarce what can you do? Growing up I was often sent to the Pineridge reservation to spend time with family (mainly when I was too much to handle) and I remember asking where the "family dog" went to. They told me at the time it had run away, learned years later it was on my plate.

    I love my dogs, will fight for them, will protect them, but should the worst case scenario ever arise- and I mean it was either them or a human- I would eat the human! - just kidding- I would have a heavy self debate but in the end I think I would eat the dog. I've had it before, it wasn't bad but again it would have to be the worst case scenario. However, I do catch flec from family members still on the rez ("Hey! What do you call a Sioux with dogs? A rancher!" or a vegetarian.)
     

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