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What is Cruelty?

Discussion in 'Today's APBT' started by XXX, Jul 11, 2009.

  1. Lowlife

    Lowlife Big Dog

    People have bred for weight pulling and other sports, that isn't the same dog. There is only one way to test gameness and gameness is what makes a American Pit Bull Terrier what it is.

    ---------- Post added at 12:27 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:26 AM ----------

    It is already the death of the breed when you stop breeding for gameness.
     
  2. buddysmom

    buddysmom Good Dog

    Because it it basically what many of the best have been doing for years, is it not? It is not a "sub" breed, it is true ancestors of the [] champions, bred now for their links to the old lines; and for temperament, and athletic ability, and for health.

    ---------- Post added at 11:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:31 PM ----------

    Have they, really?
     
  3. Lowlife

    Lowlife Big Dog

    "temperament, and athletic ability, and for health." have no link to gameness what so ever.
     
  4. Cynthia

    Cynthia Good Dog

    No not really. That depends on who you ask. Some say the death of the breed is letting "pet" owners have the breed and not know how to handle the breed. Some say the death of the breed is not letting the breed do what it was bred for working vs anything else.

    Most of the "busts" are not traditionalists or dogmen.

    And most I feel the issues is that every Tom Dick and harry own this breed. Most set them up to fail.

    Before MV this whole bust thing was not a media event. Most of the time it did not make the news. Now HS, AC, and rescues try to capitalize on it.

    It all ties into each other. I think I am rambling. I need to go to bed. LMAO
     
  5. Lowlife

    Lowlife Big Dog

    Yes
     
  6. buddysmom

    buddysmom Good Dog

    Sure, good point, that is a huge part of it too!

    ---------- Post added at 11:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:37 PM ----------

    No? PP, FB, etc?
     
  7. XXX

    XXX Good Dog

    No because you can breed two of the best dogs in the world and get a litter of curs... for example. HoneyBunch was bred to Zebo one time.. and nothing from the litter worked out.. they were all cold or just out and out curs.

    Sure you can have a dog that has some ancestors that were champion pit dogs... sure.. Amstaffs have champion pit dogs in them as well.... so does that mean they are still APBTs?

    Having the lineage doesn't make you what your ancestors were... My grandfathers on both sides served in the Army... does that make me a soldier?

    All you are trying to describe is a game bred dog.... a dog that comes from historical fighting lines. We already have those... but if the gamebred dogs aren't tested eventually and you continue to just breed for a pretty pedigree.... you aren;t getting anything but a pretty pedigree.

    Sure a Honeybunch/Zebo dog sounds awesome.... looks badass on paper.. but if the whole litter is nothing but a bunch of cold dogs and rank curs and lacks gameness... what's the point? In that case why not just go get a lab? Is it because you just like the "looks" of the pit bull?

     
  8. buddysmom

    buddysmom Good Dog

    Who? Where? All I have seen is "gator, blue nose, red nose" etc. etc. ad nauseum.
     
  9. Cynthia

    Cynthia Good Dog

    PP was after MV. And FB I am not to sure. But it was not a wide spread media event. So I am guessing it may have been before MV. I truly belive MV started the witch hunt. And the media frenzy surrounding it.

    Those few names and the 2 you mentioned were found NOT GUILTY. Also are few in far between compared to all the ones that make national news now because of who?
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2009
  10. Lowlife

    Lowlife Big Dog

    Were they convicted?
     
  11. buddysmom

    buddysmom Good Dog

    Well, yes in a way, but if you also add in criteria for temperament and athletic ability and health, then you have (admittedly distant) gamebred dogs, but also awesome dogs that ARE bred with respect to their history.
     
  12. XXX

    XXX Good Dog

    In notice you keep leaving off GAMENESS.... from your list of things..

    Thats the deal breaker right there... once you leave that off... it ceases to be a APBT... once gameness is gone.. you have just another sub breed of a petbull...





    ---------- Post added at 01:48 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:46 AM ----------

    So basically.. you want a dog that can run fast and jump high... be friendly... and healthy.... yes?
     
  13. Cynthia

    Cynthia Good Dog

    Nuff said!

    UKC dogs are registered as APBT but most are also registered as Am Staffs. You can call a poodle a lab but does that make it a lab?
     
  14. buddysmom

    buddysmom Good Dog

    That wasn't the issue.
     
  15. Lowlife

    Lowlife Big Dog

    What do you think all this people are saying in all these breeding thread about having titles? conformation, weight pull, cgc all that crap that has nothing to do with a good bull dog. You don't think people have bred dogs because they have "weight pull titles"?
     
  16. buddysmom

    buddysmom Good Dog

    Well one, who says gameness is gone?!

    In some cases it will be there, in some cases it will not. Just like every OTHER game bred dog today.
     
  17. Lowlife

    Lowlife Big Dog

    yes it is the issue, they were wrongly "raided" and look at people bringing them up in a thread about cruelty. they were not convicted of anything.

    ---------- Post added at 12:54 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:53 AM ----------

    exactly, you only breed the ones it is still there, you have to test for it.
     
  18. buddysmom

    buddysmom Good Dog

    When I can stomach reading "pit bull for sale" ads, I NEVER see anything about meaningful game line pedigrees or CGC's or sports achievements or anything else that might be meaningful. ALL I see is "red nose," "gator" etc.
     
  19. Cynthia

    Cynthia Good Dog

    LMAO I find that funny. You want to put names out there and use those as as a point. But then oh it is not the issue that they were found not guilty.

    Again how many "dogmen" busts compared to Joe off the street busts? And the only ones you heard about in the Media are after MV. When it became the new "topic" and when it became a fund raising gimmick.
     
  20. buddysmom

    buddysmom Good Dog

    Huh? They were brought up because someone made the claim that no busts involved traditional dogmen.
     

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