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Visual comparison of top winning UKC, AKC and ADBA dogs

Discussion in 'Today's APBT' started by bahamutt99, Feb 11, 2009.

  1. Patch O' Pits

    Patch O' Pits Good Dog

    There are some gorgeous dogs showing in all three registries. So mucgh depends on the individual judges and how they interpret the standards on any given day with who goes home the winner... Just like not all dogs are created equally, neither are all judges. :)

    I wanted to add some very important things can't be seen in any pictures which are working drive, willingness to please, personality, and a big one for me is the overall temperament... I wanted to add that because sadly these are things I have seen judges totally discount when just looking at a "pretty" dog.

    One of my huge pet peeves is a dog placing who has it's tail tucked the whole time in the show ring...
     
  2. Lee D

    Lee D Good Dog

    true that Patch. me personally, id sooner have an ugly dog that acts the part
     
  3. phillysmom

    phillysmom Good Dog


    It would seem to me that especially with the APBT, the dog should appear to be a very confident dog.

    Wow! That Rebels Red Ace dog is a beautiful speciman.
     
  4. Sagebrush

    Sagebrush Good Dog

    Yeah, it all depends what game you are playing, if any!

    Carla
     
  5. Lee D

    Lee D Good Dog

    huh? are you attempting to read into my post a bit or what?
     
  6. outsider

    outsider Little Dog

    my view

    Forgive me for bumping up an old thread.

    I see three distinct differences between the ADBA dogs and the UKC+AKC dogs

    General muscle tone: The ADBA dogs all have a much higher degree of muscle tone. As all differences are 'nature vs nurture' I suspect this is most likely simply a lifestyle difference. I suspect the average UKC or AKC dog spends less time being exercised than the average ADBA dog. However, it is possible this indicates a genetic difference. For starters it could be that an ADBA dog has a slightly hotter metabolism and burns more calories, or could build muscle faster when exposed to the same level of exercise. Just as likely this may indicate a 'between the ears' genetic difference, the ADBA dogs may simply love to exercise more, jog at a faster pace, or whatever. Note: I have seen strains of 'olde english bulldogge' that had more developed muscles than the UKC+AKC dogs, however I know the oldes in question were exercised both heavily and regularly, and also may have been given doggie steroids.

    Chest+Legs: The ADBA dogs all are longer legged and in general about as long as they are tall while the UKC+AKC dogs are longer than they are tall. Specifically, the ADBA dogs have legs that are noticably longer than depth of chest while the UKC + AKC dogs have legs that are just barely longer than depth of chest. This does appear to be more than just a leg length issue however. The ADBA dogs look like they also have less depth of chest. Frequently dogs are looked at using a ratio of length vs height. I think for the two groups a more useful ratio would be Leg Length:Chest Depth and Overall Length:Chest Circumference I wonder if this type of analysis would show a difference between UKC vs AKC dogs (as pretty clearly it would show a difference between ADBA dogs vs UKC+AKC dogs). Clearly this is a genetic difference, no amount of exercise is going to have a noticeable impact on leg length or chest size. The ADBA dogs tend to have their front legs set closer together BUT I believe this is due to having smaller chests in general.

    Note: the UKC dog that has the longest legs and smallest chest is Bamboo Delight, the UKC+AKC dog that seemed most likely to be mentioned by this forum as decent.

    Hind quarters. The ADBA dogs have a more rounded hindquarter while the UKC+AKC dogs have a more square back end. If you look at geyhounds and whippets they tend to have similar back ends, and specialize in extremely high acceleration plus extremely high top speeds, whereas other great runners like the saluki have more square back ends which seems to match up with a slightly slower acceleration and top speed but the ability to maintain that speed for much longer periods of time. I suspect the ADBA dogs have a much shorter 'zero-to-sixty' than the UKC+AKC dogs. However, this might be heavily related to how the legs are positioned when being posed for a photo. Also this may be heavily related to the amount and type of exercise the dogs are given.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 19, 2011
  7. bahamutt99

    bahamutt99 Stealth ninja

    Muh huh. When I lose to a dog that gaits on its belly, I want to take that red ribbon and chuck it at the judge with a thank-you for wrecking my breed. Anyway, carry on. :D
     
  8. BRZLNGODDESS

    BRZLNGODDESS Little Dog

    Lindsay by the way you know your Terra is on our Lone Star State APBT club flyer...We utilized it on Lobby day...did you ever see the flyer? If not go to the club's website...She is on the front cover!!!! Terra a cover girl ooh hooo
     
  9. Prophecy

    Prophecy Good Dog

    Very interesting.I can't say anything more than I STRONGLY prefer the adba dogs over the other registry's top winners.I prefer the adba dogs structure.The adba dogs appear well conditioned,nice tone,and very proportioned and the UKC/AKC are rather underdeveloped musculature wise and are more flashy/less functional appearing(to say the least).
     
  10. bahamutt99

    bahamutt99 Stealth ninja

    Oh, awesome! I didn't know, that's great! I see Wade and Bullygirl there as well, with the costume on. I hope against hope that I'll get to go to Nationals this year. Yay for ADBA Nats in TX! *ahem* Anyway, carry on. :)
     
  11. retro

    retro Little Dog



    or, when i somehow lose to a dog that completely refuses the examination by the judge & yet is still deemed the best representative of the standard (which proclaims that 'courage is proverbial') on that particular day. that makes me SUPER happy too :rolleyes:
     
  12. Sagebrush

    Sagebrush Good Dog

    Retro: How dare you judge that dog for not standing for the exam! There could have been a good reason! YOU don't know that dog!

    Carla :rolleyes:
     
  13. Leslie H

    Leslie H Good Dog

    I remember a particular sore loser stomping away from the ring complaining "That's not right. It's not a temperament test!"
     
  14. Lee D

    Lee D Good Dog

    that kinda judge doesnt need to be in the ring imo
     
  15. bahamutt99

    bahamutt99 Stealth ninja

    Pfffft. Life is a temperament test. Being handled in the ring is no different than getting a physical exam by a veterinarian. Some dogs can't handle those things gracefully, and that's not the end of the world IMO, but it does not make the dog breeding quality. And that is what the judge is supposed to be evaluating for.
     
  16. Great post, I'm glad you took the time to gather these photo's for comparison.

    One thing I have noticed for quite some time is the white chest, forelegs and ring around the neck of the UKC & AKC AST'S. It reminds me of the Boxer which except for the color variations of fawn and brindle, the markings are virtually the same. The same could be said about the Bull Terrier, with the exception of the white coloration. That to me is the most noticable of all the traits that have changed, well except for the heavier bodies and bone to accomodate the xtra lb's. And of course the willingness to get off the couch and exercise!:lol:
     
  17. Zoe

    Zoe GRCH Dog

    I know... the first thing I think when I see socks and the white ring around the neck is Am staff??? lol
     

  18. I have to strongly disagree. A fully mature bulldog being handled by a veterinarian in a controlled enviroment without distractions. And the same bulldog in a ring with individuals the same age and sex can and usually will lead to two totally different behaviors. Yea sure some training will cur tail bad behavior in the show ring, but it is my experience as well as many others I know. When a usually docile bulldog happens to be challenged by that "certain" neighbor in the ring, all hell can break loose.

    I would like to add that I have enjoyed your Blog and the articles that have been published in the ADBA Gazette, where I have to disagree with you there as well, is where you state you think it may be best for the DA behavior of the APBT be bred out. I say that has already been done, hence what has ultimately lead to our discussion on this thread.

    Don't be alarmed Bahamutt, I'm not a cyber stalker, I have just been enjoying these dogs for a long time, and all the literature I can absorb along with them. It didn't take me long to figure out with your Avatar and the moniker, that you were LB. :o
     
  19. Sagebrush

    Sagebrush Good Dog

    No doubt, those flashy markings are a product of the AKC show ring!

    Carla
     
  20. bahamutt99

    bahamutt99 Stealth ninja

    There will be distractions at a vet's office. Plenty of other dogs there, probably other animals altogether. I wasn't talking about dog aggression. I was talking about not accepting handling by a human. If the dog is ready to bite right through the vet/judge/handler/etc to get at the other dog, then I don't believe that is proper temperament for the breed. If the dog -- other dogs on deck or not -- is thrashing to get away from human contact or completely petrified, that is also not proper temperament, and is what I was referring to above. If you read post 107, you'll get a better idea. "When I lose to a dog that gaits on its belly, I want to take that red ribbon and chuck it at the judge..." I'm talking about fear, not dog-aggression.

    The dog I show is tricky-hot. Like not outwardly "blaaaarrrrrg" towards other dogs, not normally. But she keeps me on my toes for sure. And the conditions in UKC are way closer than in ADBA. (I show her in both.) If she were to ever cower away from the judge because there were other dogs present, she would be spayed at minimum. She actually shows better because of the other dogs because she is showing off. LOL

    If you got that from my blog, you misread or misunderstood. :) I feel like APBTs should be under control, and I certainly do like to see them have the chance to live like a normal dog as much as possible. But I've never said that the DA should be "bred out." I think that people should select their nicest dogs, and not breed specifically for DA since it happens anyway. Those who breed their hottest under the mistaken assumption that it proves the dog is game... well, that's just retarded.

    You disagree with what you think is me calling for DA to be bred out (which I don't believe in), but you also disagree that a breeding-quality dog should be friendly and willing to accept handling by a stranger. What do you think the breed should be?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 9, 2011

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