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Visual comparison of top winning UKC, AKC and ADBA dogs

Discussion in 'Today's APBT' started by bahamutt99, Feb 11, 2009.

  1. bahamutt99

    bahamutt99 Stealth ninja

    This was something that I've always kinda wanted to see done. There are people who insist that the APBT and the AmStaff are the same dog, and that if you slim down an AmStaff, you'll get an ADBA-ready APBT. And there are others (myself admittedly included) who feel like although both breeds come from common heritage, the last 70+ years have changed them. And then there is the sticky situation that is the UKC ring, where AmStaffs are registered as APBTs and are more prevalent than dogs resembling the old gladiators.

    Anyway. I went through and located as many pictures as I could of the top-winning dogs from each of the big 3 registries. (Disclaimer: The comparisons are not exact -- ie, while I'm pretty sure the first set are all #1 dogs, the 2nd set might not all be #2s, and so on. The UKC only gives a top 10, and when I couldn't find one of them, I had to use a winning dog from 2007.) I think the comparison is really interesting to see. Conditioning and ring training versus type? Also note the color bias. The ADBA dogs are varied in color (and the only registry with rednose represented in the top numbers), wheras blue fawn seems to be the big thing in UKC, and fawn or brindle in the AKC.

    (Bear with the load times. I wanted to keep the pics as clear as possible, so I used PNG format, which is larger.)

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  2. innocence621

    innocence621 Little Dog

    Very interesting...thank you for taking the time to do this.
     
  3. screamin'eagle

    screamin'eagle Good Dog

    different breds IMO...it may be preference but I dont care for any of the staffs, and the only UKC dog that gets a second look from me is GR CH Ton 80's Bamboo Delight
     
  4. innocence621

    innocence621 Little Dog

    I thought the same thing!!
     
  5. DieselDawg

    DieselDawg Good Dog

    All on the same page about Bamboos Delight. Gold Ticket at least looks a bit conditioned also.
     
  6. genevieve

    genevieve Big Dog Premium Member

    I guess the real test would be taking an AKC or UKC GrCh and trying to condition them down and show them in the ADBA ring. A dog has to WANT to WORK to be conditioned and I wonder if any of those fatties would... I can't MAKE my male that fat- the weight just will not go on him- but he never stops moving and limits what he eats.

    Genevieve
     
  7. apbtmom76

    apbtmom76 Good Dog

    Thanks Baha. This is very interesting. :D
     
  8. Loki

    Loki Big Dog

    That's very interesting! Thanks for posting it. And I agree with every one else about Bamboo Delight. Most of the other dogs definitely look fat after seeing all the nice ADBA dogs there.
     
  9. CoolHandJean

    CoolHandJean Krypto Super Dog

    Very cool. Thank you for taking the time to put that together. I felt most (if not) all of the UKC dogs looked more like Amstaffs than APBTs.
    As you all know I am a fan of the Amstaff, and some of those dogs were gorgeous, but especially Gold Ticket, though, you can't beat the athletic beauty of the APBT.
     
  10. pitgirl17

    pitgirl17 Welcome Waggin

    Thanks for putting that together I found this thread very informative and nice to see the differnt types all on one page. I would have to say that I do like the AmStaff. Though they look bigger than the APBT I would not consider them fat they are not the APBT and it seem that the UKC, AKC,ADBA need to get it straight. However the athletic look of the APBT is beautiful and should not be messed with.
     
  11. AnnieC

    AnnieC Good Dog

    very nice. I don't understand why people still think they are the same breed, maybe this should help a bit.
     
  12. Boogieman

    Boogieman Guest

    Great work baha and thanks for posting it. Anybody that could deny the difference in the 2 breeds is flat out blind and lying to themselves. I for one see all kinds of difference besides just the weight of the dogs or the level of conditioning. I'm not gonna type em all out, just start comparing. Heads to heads, chests to chest, and so on. Complete different structures and body types.

    You all can't imagine which one I like the best I bet! LOL :D
     
  13. Madhawk

    Madhawk Good Dog

    Firstly, thank you very much bahamutt99, for putting all this together. What an eye opener! (Surely this could be a sticky.)

    Why? Is it because he looks closer to an athletic APBT?

    Wouldn't that be impossible, because of genetics? Isn't that the reason those dogs weren't entered in the ADBA ring?
     
  14. bahamutt99

    bahamutt99 Stealth ninja

    Well, there are dual UKC/ADBA Champs and even one Grand. I think I've heard of dogs who have CH or at least competed well in all 3 registries. It can be done, but I'd imagine the dogs who can cross-compete effectively are pretty exceptional. But I think that overall, the ideal AmStaff is not the same as the ideal APBT. Aside from those trying to keep the AmStaff as close to its roots as possible, the majority are moving in a different direction.

    Boogie, I agree that when you break it down into individual parts, there is a lot of difference. Pastern bend, neck length, chest width, etc. Another interesting thing is that there is not a single natural-eared Top Tenner in the UKC/AKC portions, wheras the ADBA dogs are largely natural.

    BTW, I agree on the Bamboo dog. (I think her call name is Panda.) She's pretty nice. Moderate. Not overdone. And not blue fawn. :D

    And glad everybody finds interest in my little project. I was figuring I'd get at least one person saying I've got too much time on my hands. LOL!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 11, 2009
  15. Boogieman

    Boogieman Guest

    Oh and I forgot to say.......you must have too much time on your hands! :lol::dance2::lolbangtable::razzberry:
     
  16. Big_Ant

    Big_Ant Little Dog

    This helps remind me of why I wasn't "excited" much about showing in UKC. I refuse to fluff up Rider in order to place, and you guys have seen me here, can you imagine me when some fat flab AST or AmBully gets placed over good dogs (including all dogs, not just mine, a good dog is a good dog and should be placed).

    ETA: I remember back in 07 when I got Rider, I met up with Ruth at a UKC show. The #1 UKC dog at the time (might have been #2, but I'm pretty sure it was #1) came out and all of these people were ooohing and aaahhhhing over him, I remember scoffing with a few people around me, saying that I wasn't impressed. Nice dog, looked happy, but he was no where near what I would consider a #1 candidate. The crowd quickly dispersed after a few looks of "OMG, did you really just say that"
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 11, 2009
  17. CampPitBull

    CampPitBull Puppy

    I guess when I think about the AST and the APBT being different breeds, I consider the temperaments over the conformation. You can have some vast variations in working type dog breeds but the temperament seems to be what really divides them, like in the GSD. People assume the AST isn't as dog aggressive as the UKC APBT or certainly the ADBA APBT, but this has such variation in lines and individual dogs from what I've seen firsthand and certainly from anectdotes. I've also heard that a particular line, well represented in the UKC showring yet coming from gamebred stock up front in the ped, can be shy or suspicious of strangers, making for good personal protection dogs. I guess I'm asking if there's a temperament division among the AKC/UKC/ADBA quality breed examples. One would assume the ADBA and UKC dogs would be more dog aggressive and less suspicious of strangers and the AKC dogs would be cold as a snowman and possibly more human questionable due to the smaller and more conformation related breeding. Of course, not every UKC/ADBA dog is bred with stable temperament in mind, either, so this is a bit of a moot exercise I suppose.
    I do know that I prefer a dog with with a graceful, arching neck over a thick short one. I've also noticed that I could show several of my rescued pound hounds in UKC and finish them since they fall in between the ADBA/AKC prefered look. The AKC/UKC dogs are of such larger bone, chest width and different rear angulation (I think that's what I'm looking at) that I don't think they'd finish as quickly as a closer to ideal springy, lithe APBT in ADBA. I had large boned, tall UKC style bitches that did poorly in ADBA shows. I corrected them for displaying towards other dogs, so they were stressed in the ring when the others were sounding off and the judges don't like a weenie in ADBA, another different I've noticed in showing in three registries. An AST that swings around menacingly or pulls on its back legs trying to get another dog is part of the package in ADBA and will probably get you excused in AKC/some UKC.
    Whew. I need to lay off the Rockstar....
     
  18. odd.eyed.jack

    odd.eyed.jack Little Dog

    What an awesome post, Baha! This is something that I am very interested in, and interested in being able to explain to others. Now I have visual aids to help in my 'explaining.' Thank you for taking the time.

    :doggyhug2:
     
  19. DieselDawg

    DieselDawg Good Dog

    I always find it amusing that ALL of the AST's have cropped ears (which the general public associates with dogfighting) and most of the APBT's have natural ears.
     
  20. myo

    myo Puppy

    would I be ok to steal these pics and put em on another forum please???
     

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