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This amazing breed?

Discussion in 'General Dog Discussions' started by Simba&me, Mar 2, 2012.

  1. Simba&me

    Simba&me Puppy

    This amazing breed has been the temperamental discussion in my previous thread. The divide between breeding and not breeding is a strong and emotional one and in some cases can get out right mean. Some people feel that breeding is a big no no because many pits go un-adopted and end up killed. I have to agree, the number is alarming. Much of it is do to irresponsible owners looking to make a few bucks And irresponsible owners not being responsible owners that end up giving up on their dogs. Some are just in it for their own reasons. I was recently criticized and shewed like a 2 day old piece of gum. The reason was a valid yet controversial question. "How do I find the right breeder". The thread has been closed, not sure why. But I guess it went off topic. But it left me with a void. Some of these people actually had a valid point althou they didn't express it very nicely. But it sort of made me wander, How do you find the right breeder? I wasn't really looking to breed, I was looking to get a second dog. Some had a problem with that because they assumed since I was looking for a companion for my pup that I was gonna be a breeder myself. Lol. I really didn't have that in mind but for some reason I found my self in the middle of rapid fire out of some because they had to convey to me how they felt about breeding this particular breed. I took a step back and said "wow". These people really have a strong feeling about this. But I was against the wall about anything I posted. That was sad, because I really came here to inform my self for the better of the breed I already owned and looking for another one. I almost felt guilty owning him for lack of better expression. It's as if people think this breed shouldn't even exist and they regret getting one and warn others about even thinking of owning one. ???? Not sure why I feel that way but I do."Don't breed, they will turn on you, they will kill other dogs, cut the nuts, clip the girls, we don't need no more, too many, millions die a day.Ok. What then???Exterminate them all? Give requirement license to owners?Make them endangeredWhat is there to do?This coming from owners? This will confuse any new owner or potential person looking to adopt. How many people who adopt and up returning the pet?I had to ask.What happens to all those cute hairy puppies at the pets store window when nobody buys them? Here in florida there is a chiwawa epidemic and I was just curious. Also what's the number of reported chiwawa bites?So the question "how do I find the right breeder?" Isn't that what's important more people wanting one? Or 2? Or maybe even three to join their family? We can't control the irresponsible breeders, but what if there weren't any breeders? And what if the few breeders spiked price to control the breed? What if price kept you from having a loving dog in your family? Will that solve the problem? I
  2. I have no issue with responsible, ethical breeders. Unfortunately most people breeding "pit bulls" these days are backyard breeders. They have really destroyed pit bull type breeds, not only genetically, but also because they will sell a puppy to ANYBODY! These dogs are ending up in irresponsible homes that are setting their dogs up to fail. Everytime a negative story ends up on the news about pit bulls, I can't help but blame the person that let the people buy the dog in the first place. Pit bull owners have to understand that their decisions about their dogs can effect all pit bull owners in regards to the push for Breed Specific Legislation. I care if you breed your dog because there's a chance it could effect my right to own my dog.
  3. DancesWithCurs

    DancesWithCurs Good Dog

    That's because you specifically stated that you were looking for an unaltered female. Link to your post here: http://www.pitbull-chat.com/showthr...-find-the-right-breeder&p=1140385#post1140385

    There's no reason to look for an unaltered female if the dog is simply meant to be a companion

    Most people that love this breed will warn against owning one because this is not a breed for everyone. The reason the breeds are in such deep shit now? It's because of a bunch of people owning them that shouldn't own them, from your resident wanna be badass to your bleeding heart that thinks their adopted "pibble" is a Lab in pit's clothing.
    Drop the violin for a second. This is a great way of saying "I didn't bother to actually read". At no point did anyone say "don't breed, they will turn on you". Ever. And yes, they WILL kill other dogs, it's a dog whose original function was to fight other dogs. Why one earth would this surprise you? Are you surprised when greyhounds take off after the nearest rabbit? If you have pets and all you want to make is more pets, then you don't need to be breeding. The only people that should be breeding their dogs are people that have proven their stock worthy through titling or work combined with appropriate temperament and good health. That's what makes a good breeder and separates them from the BYBs who will stick a penis and a vagina because they're pretty or "would make great pets" or for a buck.
    No, no it's not. Because some people don't need to be owning and some people don't need to be breeding. Chihuahuas aren't on the block for BSL at all, we're talking about bully breeds here. Stop presenting terrible strawman arguments
    None is better than nothing but irresponsible ones. That's why good dogs can be hard to find in the US and that's why there's dog bites everywhere. Irresponsible breeders and irresponsible owners
    That's not how it works. Look at all the $3000 dollar AmBullies with horrible bone structure that can;t walk a block without looking like they're going to die or the English Bulldog who costs and looks about the same
    Sorry, that's not how it works. Stop trying to play the victim card. It doesn't work. Breed responsibly, or you're part of the problem. Period. I can;t think of one person here that has an issue with responsible non-peddling breeders
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 2, 2012
  4. KNicK

    KNicK Puppy

    I've worked with a rescue for 5 years, and while I wouldn't buy a dog from a breeder myself, I have no problem with RESPONSIBLE breeders. But honestly, look at adopting a dog before buying one from a breeder. I've fostered more than my fair share of pit mixes, and I can tell you that I've also fostered pure-bred pit bulls. If you're ever looking for a dog, try petfinder.com. You can search for any breed of dog, and specify age, sex, size, etc, and all the dogs on the website are from rescues and shelters in your area.
    Irresponsible breeders are the reasons that so many pit bulls die EVERY DAY in shelters across the country.
  5. Pugmom

    Pugmom Puppy

    I think you might have missed the point of the other thread...its not about never breeding APBTs but about RESPONSIBLE breeding and letting the people who know what they are doing handle it

    also regarding the cut puppy in the window question....have you ever thought about where that puppy came from?...and where the money you used to purchase that puppy goes?....That puppy came from a mom and dad that are somewhere squeezed in a crate ..pumping out litter after litter ...and the money you pay for that puppy goes to fund that abuse
  6. Simba&me

    Simba&me Puppy

    Ohhh, I get it. not everybody is qualified to own one of these. So please explain to me who qualifies. From the looks of it you all got your pits from a reputable breeder. Come on people!!! And please, violins won't do it.
  7. KNicK

    KNicK Puppy

    Um, no. My pit MIX is from my rescue. She was found running the streets.
    Qualified owners generally means owners who have experience with bully breeds, and/or large dogs, and and owners who will take their dog to training classes/know how to train their own dog. Qualified does NOT mean owners who are buying a pit for their look or reputation. Too many people buy dogs to breed just because they're greedy and want the money from it, so they treat their dogs like crap.
    No need to be rude.
  8. DancesWithCurs

    DancesWithCurs Good Dog

    The breed works with:
    • Someone who is willing to or has done research on the breed and is always willing to do more if there is something they want to know
    • Someone who realizes the breed has a propensity for dog aggression and is willing to work with that
    • Someone who realizes the breed has a propensity for high prey drive and is willing to work with that
    • Someone who has the means to adjust to and work with a high energy dog
    • Someone that can be firm with rearing and training the dog
    • Someone willing to exercise the dog well as an adult
    There are numerous other things that make a good owner for an APBT but I find these the most important. And my mix was taken from a wanna be dog fighter after the man attempted to drown him as a puppy and adopted my grandmother. Then when my grandmother died he went to my family. The other was a hand off APBT puppy from a family that had lost him, and when I found him and gave him back he kept running back to my place until they just didn't want him anymore. So in that respect, both were rescues tossed into my lap. Had I been actually looking for an APBT from a breeder, I would have gotten it from someone responsible or reputable. I don't support breedings from unproven dogs of any breed. Period
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 2, 2012
  9. WhoDoVooDoo

    WhoDoVooDoo Puppy

    Would you look for a Border Collie or an Australian Shepherd if you were elderly, worked a full time job and then came home and walked the dog for a half hour before going to sleep, or were just a couch potato? You might, but it would be an awful idea, because that's not the kind of lifestyle that these breeds need, and any advocate of the breeds would tell you so much.

    Would you look for a Jack Russell Terrier or a Border Terrier if you were going to keep him in a crate for most of the day because you don't want him digging in the pots or flower garden and you're afraid that he's going to get to your young daughter's many pet gerbils? You might, but it would be an awful idea, because that's not the kind of lifestyle that these breeds need, and any advocate of the breeds would tell you so much.

    Would you get a Japanese Akita or a Korean Jindo if you lived in an apartment building in the city, or had many people coming in and out doing work on your home, or your house doubled as a daycare for mentally handicapped adults?? You might, but it would be an awful idea, because that's not the kind of lifestyle that these breeds need, and any advocate of the breeds would tell you so much.

    Would you get an American Pit Bull Terrier or a Stafforshire Bull Terrier or any other bully-type dog with a known history of dog aggression if you fostered dogs from the local shelter, or didn't have the time to give the dog the plethora of exercise it needs (there's a post somewhere in the labyrinth of this forum where someone is making the same argument, and they mention that after a great many exercises that would normally EXHAUST any other dog, their bully was still ready and raring to go. i could only laugh because shit, if that don't define the breed, nothing does)? You might, but it would be an awful idea, because that's not the kind of lifestyle that these breeds need, and any advocate of the breeds would tell you so much.

    I once heard someone say, "Pit bulls are like sports cars. Everyone wants one, but not everyone should have one." It's amazingly upsetting that people don't realize what wonderful family dogs these guys can be. You know what's even more upsetting, though? People who purchase or adopt these dogs and want them to be friendly wonderful dog-park animals. If you want a dog that acts like a lab, then get. A. Lab. People just don't realize that getting a pit and trying to act it to get like a lab is like taking a black person out of Bed Stuy and expecting them to behave properly at a Japanese tea ceremony. Now, I'm not accusing you of doing that, so get your cursor away from the "reply with quote". I'm saying that a shit load of OTHER people think that. And then children get bitten by bully-types. Killed by bully-types. Little dogs get shredded by bully-types. And that's one more ad about how vicious these dogs are, how they should all be killed, and about 1,000 more people who hate the breed and want it eradicated. And that makes advocates of the breed - the breed as it SHOULD be, not the breed as people WANT it to be or anthropomorphisize (spell check is telling me that's not a word, but fuck you spell check, i have a bachelor's in english and i can make up words if i wanna) it to be - very unhappy. As you might have noticed. That is why everyone is jumping down your throat, my dearest heart.

    Well, that and you're about as dense as a frozen bowl of Jell-o.
  10. DangerZone

    DangerZone Little Dog

    Hero worship required
  11. destinoscelgo

    destinoscelgo Good Dog

    Hold on...so you're last thread got closed...and you are basically re-opening it again?
    Dude...learn to type in paragraphs by the way.
  12. K9 Love

    K9 Love Good Dog

    Second on paragraphs. It really makes it easier to read and understand your train of thought. :)

    You know, in an odd way, I think I completely get where your coming from.

    Aren't "pit bulls" just... dogs? Can't anyone just get a dog anymore? Do they all have to be special show dogs with papers, champion lineage and a complete understanding of the breeds history, standard, specific traits etc?

    I think that's what you're meaning to say, and in a way, I do understand. Sometimes I think the idea of getting a dog from a responsible breeder is taken too far when the deed is already done. Meaning, if someone already has the dog, it's good to educate, but flaming someone for an act that's already been completed isn't really helping anyone.

    I've had quite a few "doodle" owners come in and tell me how their dog is a labradoodle from champion lineage, hypoallergenic and it farts out tiny rainbows and as much as I'd like to give them the whole schpeel, I try to stick with one main topic, than spread out from there with time! lol

    I was in no way an educated "pit bull" owner when I got Hades. I had no idea that it was possible he could be dog aggressive. I am in no way promoting ignorance, but somehow, someway, we made it through. He's now 6, a CGN, not a hazard to society and he's gotten to that age without having ever killed any other dogs or small animals.

    People are passionate and so strongly opinionated because for many this breed is their "life". Imagine if your hobby, one that you dedicated almost all of your spare time to was working on your classic car. You put all your extra money, weekends and life into this hobby. Idiots who had no clue what they were doing with their classic car suped it up by using parts that shouldn't be used on them, got in accidents and killed people. Now the government has banned any car made before x year. Something you dedicated your life to is over now because of a few irresponsible people, who didn't know what they were doing, caused tragedies and made rookie mistakes.

    "Pit bulls" are the subject of BSL all over North America, and even in Europe. Peoples' "hobbies" are at risk, so yes, things get heated and often education is spared in the heat of the moment with anger because some people don't take it seriously.

    There will always be "bad breeders" out there. The hope is the people that are educated can spread the word on keeping money out of those peoples' pockets. If you are going to spend money and get a dog (not from a rescue organization/shelter) at least help finance, rather try to help the good breeders break even. The "good ones" rarely don't make much money, if anything, breed for truly healthy and stable dogs and offer a lifetime of support for those who purchase one of their puppies provided they meet the requirements.

    If not for BSL being so rampant nowadays, "pit bull" type dogs would not be high on my "experienced owner" list in actuality. Aside from dog aggression, which is easily managed for someone whose educated and willing to put the effort in, I think most pit bull type dogs are highly trainable, great housedogs and generally great with people. On the health side it seems mutt pit bulls are some dogs with great longevity and without the long list of health issues of other popular breeds.

    IMO, most people that shouldn't own pit bulls, are likely people that shouldn't own dogs AT ALL. But that's just my opinion!
  13. JoeBingo

    JoeBingo Banned

    I stand by my comments in the closed thread ... if you still stand by yours, then nothing has changed
  14. destinoscelgo

    destinoscelgo Good Dog

    You're entire post was spot on as well K9 ;)
  15. McRose

    McRose Big Dog

    see, that right there is why your thread went off track. People tried to give you their honest opinion and you were defensive and argumentative. And I recall that your attitude on your dogs breeding was something like "well, if they breed, they breed."

    A good breeder carefully PLANS to breed, and does a LOT of research, temperament and health testing. The dogs are proven and have been shown and/or competed. They're the best of the best of the breed, and will be bred with careful consideration for health and temperament to improve the breed. The breeder will carefully interview and select the family who will be buying the dog, and agree to take the dog back if there are any problems with it. Good breeders don't profit from breeding.

    Anyway, I don't think you're really asking to learn. I think you're just being combative and are going to do what you're going to do, and make some innocent puppies who will probably end up in shelters or in bad homes.

    Oh, and I got my pit from a rescue, and she's an awesome dog. I didn't pay a penny for her.

    You also don't have a pit. You have an American Bully.
  16. Pink

    Pink GRCH Dog

  17. MurphysMom

    MurphysMom Little Dog

    Hey, I'm gonna go off the rails a bit here, but I hate, hate, HATE the comparisons to APBTs and labs, as if labs are the easiest dogs to own and any idiot is worthy of having one. I own a lab, and an APBT. I by no means think that labs are the doing for everyone either. Labs are the most popular breed of dog in the US and thers just as much BYBing of labs going on there too. Granted, you are not dealing with the DA and tenacity as with an APBT, but they aren't easy keepers. They too require a ton of exercise, they are pretty much energizer bunnies until the age of about 5, they are strong and easily knock over little people. We got her when she was abut 8 mos from a neglectful owner and she destroyed way more stuff in our house in the first 2 mos we had her than our APBT has in the same time. She was harder to housebreak and train than our APBT has been, and with labs, holy shnikey the SHEDDING. Its insane. Yes, she does have a sweet disposition, and is generally dog friendly, but she picked her share of tiffs with our late AB/APBT mix. She's a tough cookie. I would never take her to a dog park, but then again, Id never take any dog to a dog park. I think you could say that about any dog breed. No breed is 100% right for everyone.
  18. Nope, Tank (the blue AmBully in my avatar) was a rescue surrendered by Razor's Edge breeders.
  19. DancesWithCurs

    DancesWithCurs Good Dog

    That wasn't the point. I also had a purebred Lab, and will never have one again for as long as I shall live unless it is dumped into my lap because no, just no. Labs of a sound temperament are supposed to be both dog and people friendly. On the other hand, the APBT has separate norms for temperament and behavior but people seem to think that they should all act the same and when a bully breed doesn't like another dog, it's either vicious, poorly trained, or something's wrong with it. Treating a Pit like it's Lab in terms of dog response is setting it up to fail
  20. WhoDoVooDoo

    WhoDoVooDoo Puppy

    Probably the most eloquent response in this whole debacle.

    Also yeah I understand the pit vs lab argument. My bad, Murphy. Stepping on tails ain't my intention. But like Curs said, it's just the concept of the thing. Maybe I should change the analogy to Goldens instead... But pits are so much smarter than goldens... ;)

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