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There is NOTHING wrong with Liver color

Discussion in 'Bull Terrier' started by Hucklebutt, Jun 23, 2010.

  1. Hucklebutt

    Hucklebutt Banned Back Yard Breeder

    Many people have told me that liver color is undesirable, but why is that? It's because they wont do well in the show ring...What is desirable is a matter of opinion but most people think because the Kennel Club writes that it is NOT desirable that everyone should shun such a color, along with thin, terrier faces, athletic bull terriers. Liver color is around today because people chose to breed for it, call it a defect all you want, but it is the same thing as people breeding for very turned heads, selective breeding for a certain 'type' of bull terrier should not be OK or not OK based on the Kennel Club bible, it is after all, a matter of opinion and people are going to breed and do as they please. So IMO I embrace all types of bull terriers and breeding for head, body, color, temperament, drive, work ability, softy bull terrier, ect is all wonderful and should be liked by everyone, but of course, everyone has there 'preferred.' See what different breeding can create?

    NOTICE: THIS IS NOT TO SPEAK BADLY OF ANY KENNEL OR ANY TYPE OF BREEDING BUT USED EXCLUSIVELY AS EXAMPLES OF DIFFERENT TYPES IN THE BULL TERRIER BREED.

    Liver dogs

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    Other bull terriers

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    See, different breedings create different things, while some of us look at those and shudder, others look at them and see major potential, possibly bred with a different type in the bull terrier. I dont know if there is any other breed out there with as many different colors, and variations as the bull terrier, its truly amazing to see.

    PS. I LOVE LIVER COLOR!
     
  2. CoolHandJean

    CoolHandJean Krypto Super Dog

    I don't know. Merle is frowned upon in the APBT circuits. I wouldn't advise people to breed for it anyway.
     
  3. Rogue Bullies

    Rogue Bullies Good Dog

    I don't know about this color in bull terriers per say, but I do know in other certain breeds some colors are not allowed because of the fact that they can be a carrier to genetic issues. Example is the lethal white trait in boxers. Almost all white boxers are born deaf or blind and have major health issues so that is a trait and color breeders don't want in their stock. This can also be the case with the merle gene in APBTs and the blue eyes. However I don't think this is the same case with the the liver color BT. I have also heard that the fawn colored BTs are not preferred in the ring. I have no idea why or why the brindle color is preferred vs. all the other ones. I honestly don't care as long as it isn't a lethal color and the dog has good health, temperament, conformation and drive.
     
  4. mstngchic2012

    mstngchic2012 Good Dog

    There are some good looking BT's especially the first pic :aww: Some of the other ones I'm not fond of like pic 19 (the close up pic of a white pup) - is that extreme head desirable or even healthy?

    Also, are BT's not supposed to have a tummy tuck? Are there bottom lines supposed to be flat? I don't know much about BT's that is why I ask.
     
  5. Poisoned

    Poisoned GRCH Dog

    I've seen BTs in good shape, Hucklebutt's dogs are lean and lovely :lol:
    Some have tucks, some are built so awkwardly a tuck isn't possible, like some GSDs and other breeds.

    I don't know why color in breeds like BT matters, unless it is one that can carry health issues... Liver is beautiful on them an wouldn't hinder them in their original work.


    Some really beautiful dogs there, but the overdone heads just make me feel... Ill. What purpose is there for a dog's nose to have a hump like a stinking camel?
     
  6. Hucklebutt

    Hucklebutt Banned Back Yard Breeder

    From what I understand, the bull terriers head shape serves absolutely no purpose at all. People ask me all the time 'what is the reason for the head?' And all I can do is shrug my shoulder because there really is no reason for it.

    Thanks poisoned, I just lowered Bowzer's weight, but scarlett is kind of chunky right now, and im looking forward to conditioning her some more, and I dont mess with the puppies weight she is too young to be worried about it.

    IMO dogs with very round curved heads are very good looking, I like it, and IMO, and the many opinions of others, a dog with a really turned head bred to something not as turned will create or have the ability to create a bull terrier with a very nice and full head without too much curve and not so much terrier face.
     
  7. Nutty

    Nutty Little Dog

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    This miniature bullterrier is from hungary, and I think he's so ugly!

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    that's ugly! just too much
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    ugly !!!! underbite ????

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    exceptionally :D
     
  8. Rogue Bullies

    Rogue Bullies Good Dog

    Old tyme bull terriers had a tuck. Today's over weight show BTs do not. Some BTs in general do have a slight tuck, but its nothing like the shape of an APBT.

    Again the only reason for the roman nose and egg head was style. Original dogs didn't have this it has changed over time with selective breeding. I think it was changed for the worse as the breed now has a harder time breathing.

    If you look at the old dogs vs. the modern day BTs they are much different. Today's dogs have much more over done heads. They are also shorter, more stocky and less agile. Not all BTs are like that we still do have some leaner ones out there, but anything in the show ring is severely.

    ---------- Post added at 11:05 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:12 AM ----------

    Could the liver tri dogs possibly be from a diluted black tri? If so maybe that is why people don't favor them because diluted colors can lead to problems. I know brindle is preferred in the show ring, but out of the brindles dark and heavy pattered brindles are favored much more for example a black brindle.
     
  9. Lakota

    Lakota Puppy

    I can't understand why the liver colour is undesirable in bull terriers. I think it is quite a nice colour and as far as I am aware, there are no health issues associated with the colour in this breed. As for the photos posted, the dog in the first photo looks quite good.
     
  10. Tusken

    Tusken Puppy

    Found this on Joybull a bulldog site:

    "Is the liver Pigment a genetic fault??
    No this is just a fallacy. Its only a color it doesn't affect the health of the dog. If your dog has genetic fault than it would have it regardless of the color of its nose. You need to look at the generations behind your dog and see how it has been bred. If breeders are breeding soley for color than yes these lines could be more predisposed to health issues. Do your research. Ask what health testing are they doing ? Are they line breeding lines and doubling up on genetic faults? Blame the breeder not the color of the dogs nose. The only reason its not desired in the British Bulldog world cause years ago if they bred a Dudly nose it indicated a line that wasn't pure."




    Chocolate Labs are liver.

    There have been liver BTs shown. Anna Nichole is one. You can also find a few in the pedigree look up site.

    As long as it has the bull terrier personality and expression I'll love it no matter the color or gut size.

    Oh and I really like the girl in the 6th picture down. When I first started looking into BTs she was one of my favorites and I just figured she was red. :o

     
  11. Hucklebutt

    Hucklebutt Banned Back Yard Breeder

    Very nice!!!! :D Janice will be pleased to see such!!
     
  12. Mrpedigree

    Mrpedigree Big Dog

    Hucklebutt couldn't pick any worse pics of bull terriers in this thread !
    Some of the pics of the later dogs have been bred to have over exaggerated heads witch in my experience only will produce terribly poor bites and undershot jaws. :no2:...i see it seems a lot of breeders in the states are doing this :rolleyes:

    As for the liver colour....the more and more i look at it ...the more and more i dislike it....it just don't suit the breed imo ! :no2:
     
  13. CoolHandJean

    CoolHandJean Krypto Super Dog

    Tusken, good info. Thanks for finding that.
     
  14. Poisoned

    Poisoned GRCH Dog

    How can a color not suit the breed, I must ask? Maybe if it were a hunting breed who needed to blend in... You know, white might not go over so well in the woods. But for a BTs purposes, color doesn't have much to do with it.

    To me, a dog is only beautiful if it was bred with working in mind.
     
  15. Tusken

    Tusken Puppy

    But Red is ok or even great? I see a lot of people asking "now is that a red dog or liver?"
     
  16. Zoe

    Zoe GRCH Dog

    I remember the liver discussion about Staffy bulls coming up and I can't recall exactly, but someone had said that there was some connection between liver and some sort of feet/toe issues. I don't know if it was that they threw pups with a certain defect or that they had it themselves. I did find this about toe issues within the breed but I can't find anything in relation to liver as of yet. Maybe there is a similar reason with bull terriers??? Who knows. I personally really like the black and tan and liver as well but unless there is an actual REASON for it not being accepted outside of asthetics, I don't see the point myself.

    http://www.dogloverstoolbox.com/info/short-toes.pdf
     
  17. whiteguyjames

    whiteguyjames Little Dog

    I personally LOVE the coloration of this dog:

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  18. Hucklebutt

    Hucklebutt Banned Back Yard Breeder


    get off your @$$ and make a better one than Garry, I dont want you clicking away on the keyboard b/c you come in here to run your mouth with nothing nice to say but I dont see you adding anything constructive to this forum, or this thread! The dogs with extreme curves and undershot jaws are from UK, NOT US. :sign0024:


    ---------- Post added at 05:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:41 PM ----------

    Thanks James.

    Zoe, I have never heard about feet problems, but who knows.

    Garry, thats cool you dont like the color, just like the rest of them, I suggest you follow back in line now like a good lad, and go back to international forum where ya'all think a like in the same BS.
     
  19. Mrpedigree

    Mrpedigree Big Dog

    How could i be even more constructive then ??? Could i be more constructive if i bred under aged pups to have big litters like you have ?? would that make me more responsible ?? OH i forgot it was "mistake" :rolleyes::no2:

    And as for the the other forum that you mention...havent you been banned for life over there several times just like over on this forum Daniellele ?? but your like a bad penny ...you keep coming back !
    Youve been caught out stealing peopls pics and copying their posts and lying so many times over there its unreal...you even lied to me ...remember that?? How manny accounts have you had over there and here ?? you even got banned on you tube ...how did you manage that ?
    You know surely a person like you with such with such stains on their reputation shouldn't cast stones ! ;):cool:

    As for what i said about the over exsagerated head being bred for ...most of the pics i have seen on facebook of heads like this are from kennels from the States or abroad ...i rarely see any that type of exsagerated head in the show ring over here !
    As for the liver colour ...no i dont think i do like it as IMO (witch i am entitled to) i dont think it suits the breed !
    Some of the more tanned coloured livers are ok ...but the ones with the real red nose just dont look right to me....maybe if i we see more of them we would get used to it ...but for me the out and out liver colour in some of those pics just dont look right !
    I hope this post don't offend or get deleted ...As i am entitled to my opinion and to defend myself against personal attacks :)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 29, 2010
  20. Hucklebutt

    Hucklebutt Banned Back Yard Breeder

    You say I lie but im not banned from Youtube, so I dunno where on earth you pulled THAT out of your behind. :lol: Get your facts strait, I ASKED to be removed from PBC years ago, OK? I was banned off international bull terrier forum because those people dont want to hear anything OTHER than there dogs are perfect specimens except there fat useless BLOBS! So, all you can come up with is the saaame BS as everyone else, breeding, and being BANNED! you honestly think any of that matters to me? Internet shit talk? Too bad you never met Clueless, I would have liked to see the end result, which I am already sure of! :lol:

    ---------- Post added at 04:37 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:23 AM ----------

    garry you do nothing but to come in here and talk smack for no reason and have nothing to contribute to this forum, but sit behind your computer with your internet wars because it just might give you a purpose in life. Go away. I wouldnt be surprised if you, or the other followers like you were outside my house with binoculars attempting to find extra dirt on me because you can only find so much online for those internet warriors.

    ---------- Post added at 04:43 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:37 AM ----------

    Ok Ok im going to be a little Bi-polar right now and say sorry, im kind of stressed out right now and just, I dunno, losing my brain! uncalled for, I dont want to argue. I take it back. Im not going to argue! im just stressed out super bad!
     

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