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Staffordshire Bull Terriers and Kennel Clubs

Discussion in 'Staffordshire Bull Terrier' started by Zoe, Oct 7, 2008.

  1. Zoe

    Zoe GRCH Dog

    One thing I don't have a clear grasp on, and would like to learn more about, is the kennel clubs that register staffy bulls. I know the AKC, UKC and CKC do and I am assuming they focus on show style dogs but I've also talked to people who have their dogs registered with the FCI and the IKC. Now, is the IKC different from the KC? I was just wondering if any of the staffy bull folks want to take a stab at explaining a bit about the kennel clubs and what they are all about concerning staffies. :)
  2. Hobbs

    Hobbs Big Dog

    I'm afraid I don't know the answer but I have posted it as a question on the British forum I'm a member of. It's pretty late there so I don't know if I'll get an answer tonight.

    Also Zoe what does FCI stand for?
  3. Zoe

    Zoe GRCH Dog

    IFC stands for Federation Cynologique Internationale (World Canine Orgnaization). I don't really get what that is. On the Canada's Guide For Dogs, it says it regongizes over 300 breeds but it's not a registry nor does it give out peds? Is it more like a breed club but for a bunch of breeds that are registered elsewhere? I don't get it! lol I talked to a guy in Sweden who said that is where his dogs are registered as the IKC isn't recognized where he is although he likes the IKC dogs better?

    Here's their link though...


    Here's the links to Canada's Guide To Dogs I was reading from...


  4. wrightb44

    wrightb44 Puppy

    ikc=international kennel club and is run by ed reid in the uk it focuses more on the athletic side ie weight pulling a frame etc and looks for the old type standards there is a website if you google ed reid you will get there:)
  5. wrightb44

    wrightb44 Puppy

    sorry that should read intercontinental kc:blush::blush::o:)
  6. Zoe

    Zoe GRCH Dog

    Ok ya... I have seen his website! Cool. That is so the kind of staffy I'm lovin'! lol Not that I don't appreciate the show style but man... those old style ones got me all gaga! lol
  7. castle

    castle Puppy

    IKC also stands for Irish Kennel Club
  8. Zoe

    Zoe GRCH Dog

    Yes! I had seen their website. But they are more like a breed club and not a registry?? Am I on the right track? lol
  9. castle

    castle Puppy

  10. Zoe

    Zoe GRCH Dog

    Oooops! lol
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 25, 2008
  11. castle

    castle Puppy

    here have a read at this


    Having read some of the contibtions in your periodical, it seems apparent theres quite a few Stafford fanciers living in fantasy land.Any suggestions that we should accept the English Bull Terriers version of history for the breed would be particularly retrograde, as that version is basically the English Bull Terriers history transposed onto the Stafford.

    According to the English Bull Terrier story, the 1860's type White English Bull Terrier was superior to the Original Bull Terrier as a fighting dog, why then did the old time sporting fraternity not abandon the older type to embrace the new Dalmation/English White Terrier/Stafford mix ?....the answer is simple, you cannot mongrelise a strain by crossing to a different breed and expect to consistently produce game dogs. I speak from experience....not armchair theories.

    The idea that a long established game line of combat Bulldogs could be improved by crossing with Terriers may have been acceptable 150 years ago when evolution was a dirty word but it doesnt work in practice.

    The Irish Wheaten Terrier not the show Wheaten is as game as any Terrier, having been bred for the specific task in recent times of meeting big game underground in total silence, often taking terrible punishment. Many times these dogs have been crossed with Staffords in order to improve this inclination to work in silence to the progeny competing in trials in Ireland. Ive bred quie a few litters myself this way, using really game Staffords and Wheatens from Peter Gormans strain which were the very best...of all the pups i produced, i only know of one dog possessing the type of gameness i required of my Staffs. This dog Terry T's Grip went 2:20 and lost game against a local Staff dog of 36lbs. None of the brothers or sisters were game and he didnt sire a single game pup. I think that the Bull breeds were indeed crossed with other dogs to increase the determination of Lord Orfords coursing Greyhounds, to increase the gameness and strength of jaw in Terriers used to hunt, and more recently to increase the poke and agility of the Mastiff breeds to produce the so called Bandog, but never ever to increase the fighting ability of the Pit dog. I must stress that my opinions are based on experience at the sharp end....not from books or pub conversations.

    Another source of amusement is the growing trend of fanciers claiming to own Old-Tyme Staffords. I'd like to know where were all those Old- time dogs 20 years ago, when i was looking for competition for my own Staffords.All show strain Staffords produce some pups which are more rangey than the ornamental favourites of the EKC exhibitors and, when these are passed onto pet homes some get into the hands of those who claim to have remnants of ..secret strains, thats been hidden away since a 100 years ago....others are produced by crossing APBT'S, like the newly recognised Jack Russell Terrier enthusiasts claim to trace their dogs back to the Reverend Jack Russell himself. The mainstream Jack Russell fanciers who hunt their dogs want nothing to do with Kennel Club shows, considering that show Jack Russells were infused with Fox Terrier blood to produce showy-looking tho largely useless dogs.

    One example of the Old Time Stafford that was quoted was CH. Stormer. well to those 'Old Time' Stafford fanciers who are new to the game, i can tell you that this dog was bred from3/4 English Bull bitch ( which was also the mother of Flint a 2 x W and 1 x L) and a pure Stafford called Adam. When Adam was owned by Nibbsey of Belfast he quit in 35 mins. Adam was son of Socks the great badger dog and he was pure show bred being a grandson of the Belfast bred CH Badgerlea Rascal.
    Rickys CH. Psycho another 'Old Time' Stafford was 1/8th English Bull Terrier and double bred on Geronimo, Geronimo wasnt from some obscure strain of secret fighting dogs either...but from show bred lines his grandsire was CH. Brinstock Glenagow.
    The former owners of CH. Stormer the Boneyard boys insist that the best Stafford they ever saw was a son of my old Oscar, a dog called Teddy and that includes GR CH Duke...CH Psycho...CH Stormer. Oscar also produced my own own bitch i named Squaw a 2 x winner. None of these dogs were bred off any mysterious old time strain either as Oscar was sired by CH Rockmere Rip It Up and a Belfast show Stafford. So where where were all those 'old time' Staffords hiding when these dogs were active?

    I must add, that im not championing the cause of show breeding but the simple fact is that the only strains of Staffs that exist today are from KC reg'd stock somewhere along the line or else a cross of these dogs with KC English Bulls ....or more recently with APBT's.

    That is the situation in Ireland, and if someone in Britain is claiming to have 'old time ' Staffs that arnt bred off KC stock, why could none be found to challenge CH. Brock or Dillenger ? both bred down from registered stock. From many of the pedigrees advertised of 'Irish Strain' Staffs its apparent that these donot represent dogs that were ever matched over here, with very few exceptions, but someone is doing very nicely out selling their notion that they were. the fact that top quality dogs are so rarely produced, even when breeding for working ability alone in Stafford, is the reason why many of us have gone over to pure APBT's.50 years of breeding for purely ornamental dogs has flooded the country with inferior dogs, making it all the more difficult to reproduce gameness. When it does crop up its a throw back. Its much easier to produce in Pitbulls which have game dogs scattered more closely in their pedigrees.

    LETS CUT THE bullcrap....Humbug is a product of fantasy and a lack of knowledge with experience.

    Yours in sport....DRIFTER.

    So really there are only staffordshire bull terriers nothing more nothing less. Apart from crosses.
  12. Zoe

    Zoe GRCH Dog

    Thank you! Very interesting read, although it's made me a little sad for the breed. It would be nice to see more people selectively breeding the dogs with more athletic builds and high drive. I'm interested in obtaining a SBT in the near future but I don't really want a short, squat dog that has trouble breathing. lol It doesn't have to be game, but I like dogs with high drive and an athletic build that can have a ton of active fun! :)
  13. Hobbs

    Hobbs Big Dog

    Excellent article castle!

    Zoe you can find what you want if you do your research. It took me 2 to 3 yrs to find the right breeder and then to find the right pup. I totally trusted her to pick what I had requested and that's how I got Hobbs. He's everything that you're looking for in drive and athletic build....but he is a little on the small side for a male. It's important that you stay away from dogs that have short snouts...hence the breathing problems...also with the short snouts you have over crowding teeth and the becomes another issue. There's also 2 body types too....the bully and the terrier type build. So if you were to do dog sports of some sort you'd be looking more for the leaner terrier type body which unfortunately is a little harder to find.
  14. wrightb44

    wrightb44 Puppy

  15. Zoe

    Zoe GRCH Dog

    Thank you! I have checked those guys out. I believe they are in the S.A.C.S. forum as well so I think I've seen some photos of their dogs in action! lol
  16. Zoe

    Zoe GRCH Dog

    Ya.... I've actually been talking to quite a few people over seas as I think I might go the route of having one imported. Raven's dad feels bad for us that we had to quit fostering, as well as not being able to show and work Scarling with Raven's health issues so he said he'd be willing to get us a pup. Only thing that will really suck is that we will have to quarantine it from Raven for a bit until we are sure it's not carrying anything. That long a transport I'm sure will be stressful on a little pup so probably open it to picking something up. Keeping Raven away from a pup... will be challenging to say the least! lol We can always mask her up and throw her in the shower after. My guess is she'll be taking about ten showers a day! lol I won't mind if it's a small dog. In fact, we are kind of hoping for a little stinker! With the way things go in our house, it will probably be freakishly huge! lol Tanks got a ton of relatives that are barely over thirty pounds and no one ever believes they are related! We just seem to wind up with all the huge freaks for some reason! lol
  17. cher_bear

    cher_bear Good Dog

    lol @ Zoe.it probably will be a mutant staffy. lucky bum,i so want one too ...
  18. Zoe

    Zoe GRCH Dog

    Well, if it ever happens you are welcome to come over and schmooze it up anytime! :)
  19. cher_bear

    cher_bear Good Dog

    ya know im going to be all over that ..heehee puppies are like kryptonite,my secret weakness
  20. Hobbs

    Hobbs Big Dog

    Hopefully you can find a nice dog in Canada and not have to go to the expense of importing one.

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