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Seven Sins APBTs vs. Caragan Kennels: The Truth

Discussion in 'General Dog Discussions' started by NobodyHere, Dec 19, 2015.

  1. NobodyHere

    NobodyHere Guest

    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 19, 2015
  2. NobodyHere

    NobodyHere Guest

  3. NobodyHere

    NobodyHere Guest

  4. NobodyHere

    NobodyHere Guest

  5. Lillie May

    Lillie May Good Dog

    I'm really sorry SS that you had to go through all this. It's very sad for Jiggles. Although I don't know you personally, it's my belief that you are a responsible, ethical breeder. But also someone who has a true love of the breed. This is based on your postings here. You're here every day educating people, such as myself, on the things we need too know.

    I also know you don't care what we think of you good or bad. I believe in thanking people who help me. Take it as you will, but it sucks it happened, and I think your reputation will continue to be rock solid.
  6. Novy

    Novy Little Dog Premium Member

    Wow that was one hell of a long read, those two seem like a real piece of work. It provided some quality entertainment, especially some searching after the fact and looking at Kasey's open facebook profile (obviously not too bright) along with Cheryl's comments.
  7. ETRaven

    ETRaven Little Dog

    Fuck...this is why good breeders are so hard to find. Because others put them through this garbage for the almighty dollar. (wonder how much Cheryl spent on this herself....bet the offer of $1000 bucks, isn't too bad in hindsight). But I digress, chin up Seven Sins APBT, the truth prevailed. You guys are A+ in my book (not that it means much).

    Please continue with your amazing breeding program. We need people like you, the dogs need people like you.

    And, last, what goes around comes around.
  8. brindle

    brindle Little Dog

    What a mess. Seven Sins, I don't know you but I have looked at your site and you have fine dogs. I am sorry you got into such a mess.

    As posted above, no wonder good ethical breeders are so hard to find.

    Best of luck to you and I hope you can put this behind you and move on. I am not on Facebook so see none of what goes on there...
  9. Leslie H

    Leslie H Good Dog

    Some things don't change. Cheryl's been talking about people stealing and mistreating her dogs for decades. Supposedly my dog Xanny's dam, Xia, was stolen by another kennel, and when Cheryl got her back years later, she was in terrible shape,having been neglected and repeatedly bred, so terrible that she was forced to breed her herself at 9 years old. Cheryl never did anything wrong to me personally, my dog was wonderful, passed health tests, temperament tests, showed and worked. But Cheryl sold friends some truly mediocre (undershot) pups as show pups. She claimed that fearful dogs had strong temperaments. She avoided health testing, and told repeated tales of being betrayed by partners. So, I am not surprised to read this.
  10. NobodyHere

    NobodyHere Guest

    My co-breeder (Elissa, LarrysMom on PBC) and I appreciate the comments. I'd be lying if I said that I don't care what "anyone" thinks. I do, or I wouldn't have come just short of writing a book about it. :lol: Reputation matters to an extent, it's just that as far as we're concerned, it's a quality vs. quantity issue. We don't feel the need to market ourselves to anyone. I think anyone who has been around me long enough understands that I don't appreciate "blind" respect or admiration (toward anyone), and that I draw very strong distinction between the words "reputable" and "ethical."

    I'm only going to post one more thing about this particular breeder, mostly because members of this forum were directly involved, and I think it's only fair that they know where their money went. I actually missed this thread when it was originally posted. Funds were solicited in order to get one of Cheryl's bitches, named Tiffany (coincidentally, Jiggles' dam), to a "new home" in Canada, due to Cheryl being "unable to care for her while in treatment." In reality, the funds donated were used to ship Tiffany to Canada for a planned breeding to a dog named Crinshaw, and Tiffany was shipped back to Cheryl for her to whelp the litter and sell the puppies. Tiffany was given or sold to someone in Washington after the litter. Make note of dates: A True Advocate of the Breed Needs Our Help


    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 21, 2015
  11. Novy

    Novy Little Dog Premium Member

    Fuck me. That's as sleazy as it gets!
  12. Deputy Dog

    Deputy Dog Guest

    Verbal agreements are only as good as the hand you shake when you agree. That's why I always got it in writing. Even so, I still had to litigate several times for breech of contract. Just makes it easier to win on your terms. Good luck with your pups!
  13. ETRaven

    ETRaven Little Dog

    Agreed, but if you look at the pedigrees of SS dogs, a lot are out of Caragan lines. Some would think that after that type of relationship all that is needed is a handshake. Plus, I could see Cheryl being offended if SS APBT would've asked her to put it in writing.

    It's a hard lesson learned, but those are the ones that stick the most.

    Not to stir the pot any further, but I'm going to....I just looked at the CK webpage and noticed the big ol' story about Jiggles. Really? Is that necessary to go into all that backstory? It's just, ugh, I don't even know how to articulate it.
  14. NobodyHere

    NobodyHere Guest

    My only comment on this one is that I'm very much a contract person (and a thorough one at that, contracts are my "thing"). Despite my warning and insistence, my co-breeder agreed to the verbal contracts, telling me that if she couldn't trust Cheryl's word, then we just wouldn't do business in the future and that was that. Believe me, we've had our share of "I told you so" arguments since this inevitably happened.
  15. BCdogs

    BCdogs Good Dog Super Moderator

    What a clusterfuck. Really sorry to hear about Jiggles, that's about as shady as it gets. But glad you have all rights to Spike now and this mess is finally over.
  16. ruffiangirl

    ruffiangirl Little Dog

    Is that Whitney in central Alberta by chance...

    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
  17. ruffiangirl

    ruffiangirl Little Dog

    From creeping her page I suspect perhaps yes since they are/were friends on Facebook around that time...small world. That was the only person I knew with real apbt :(

    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
  18. CrazyK9

    CrazyK9 Good Dog

    I went to Kaseys FB and Cheryl's website. I can't believe they are accusing Elissa of neglecting Jiggles. That she was void of the love and care she deserved. That had to be a rough call on you guys to stand your ground on not breeding her, knowing it meant she would end up back with Cheryl.
  19. CallSignOWL

    CallSignOWL Good Dog

    oh wow, what a mess.... :no2:

    is it common to have these co-owner agreements where one person has the dog, and the other has the papers?
  20. NobodyHere

    NobodyHere Guest

    Sometimes, yes. Registration papers have nothing to do with actual legal ownership of a dog. Ownership of a dog depends on two things, first being who has physical possession of the dog and is responsible for the dog's care and expenses, and second, your contract. Sometimes, as in the case of a dog that will live with and be shown by a professional handler (not allowed in UKC, but if you owned an AKC breed, it would be), even though the dog would be in the care and control of the handler long enough that they could have otherwise claimed legal ownership of the dog, you would generally sign a contract that states you are the legal owner of the dog and are legally liable for the dog and its expenses.

    On the flip side, you have a situation like the one we require from anyone who gets one of our dogs, where the buyer owns the dog, but we keep physical possession and sole signatory on the dog's papers until certain contractual obligations are met (this depends on whether the dog is a pet or intended for sport/show, but all of our dogs require a full battery of health testing, some require either spay/neuter or oss/vasectomy, etc) and then we transfer the registration papers to the owner. The owner is still bound to the restrictive covenants in the contract, it's just an added measure of security. Unlike in AKC, UKC doesn't have a limited registration option, so sole signatory and physical possession of registration papers is "supposed" to work the same way, provided that your breeder is ethical.

    I hope that made sense. If not, I'll be happy to try and give a better example.
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 21, 2015

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