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Scaleless reptiles

Discussion in 'Reptiles & Amphibians' started by adjecyca, Feb 26, 2014.

  1. adjecyca

    adjecyca Good Dog

    How do you feel about the breeding of Scaleless reptiles, I know that scaleless pythons do not have heat pits, and i imagine other health problems ?Are we taking a step in the wrong direction?
  2. DancesWithCurs

    DancesWithCurs Good Dog

    Can't say I'm a fan of scaleless BPs. Not at all
  3. kayla baxter

    kayla baxter Big Dog

    I don't like the idea of breeding for anything that is unhealthy for the animal. I can't stand the leatherback bearded dragons.
  4. DanDavis

    DanDavis Esquire

    Yes, breeders are taking things too far. When an animal's health is compromised due to selectively breeding certain traits, that in my opinion is a step too far.
    I'm not a fan of the guy that bred the pictured snake, but it hasn't biased my opinion. I just think it is wrong.
    Kayla, they are also breeding silk back beardies. I think you get them from breeding leather back to leather back, and they have even more troubles than their parents.
  5. Jamielvsaustin

    Jamielvsaustin Good Dog

    To me that snake ^^^ looks cool...but (in this area) I'm ignorant and I'm sure to someone who is more knowledgeable it's sad to look at-like when I see a merle dog or a white tiger. (genetic messes!)

    What is wrong with us? (people in general) We have no regard for what horrible conditions we put these animals (and reptiles) through. Breeding in general doesn't bother me...I'll never buy from a breeder-but I understand their importance. But with that "importance" comes a great responsibility-it needs to be done right. We should be bettering breeds. Having a healthy balance between dominant and ressessive genes...not knowingly creating things (such as the silk backs Dan described) that are going to have difficulties just being. It's sad. And too many people have the option of breeding that there will never be a way to fully weed out the irresponsible and unethical breeders.
  6. DanDavis

    DanDavis Esquire

    I totally agree with you Jamie on both accounts - the snake does look cool and we should be breeding to better breeds and species. To produce an animal of any kind only to please the eye, and with no regard for the consequences is bloody wrong.

    The snake in the picture (as mentioned) does not have heat pits. The breeders have forfeited one of the snake's key senses, so they can have it without scales. Ok, so it could be argued that the snake does not need them, as it's in captivity and not required to hunt for its food, and I don't really have a good comeback for that. However, it's still morally and ethically wrong.
  7. xchairity_casex

    xchairity_casex Good Dog

    I am a total idiot when it comes to Snakes, May i ask WHY they are being bred Scale-less?
    I mean, just because it looks weird?
  8. adjecyca

    adjecyca Good Dog

    Pretty much and for the $$$
  9. xchairity_casex

    xchairity_casex Good Dog

    UGH!! Disgusting.
    I wont even get into tail-less or Dwarf rats for the health issues- but everyone goes bat-shit over em.
  10. I must say....

    I think it's awfully funny how so many people are against breeding the scaleless animals, with their number one argument being that "It's not natural."
    Folks....keeping our snakes in racks and in tupperware containers is not natural! Keeping any wild origin animals in captivity is not natural! Breeding for all these phenominal color morphs is not natural! People keep breeding Spiders and incorprating them into morphs, even though most of them have terrible neurological deficits....aka the wobble. Why isn't that emphasized as a big deal?

    Another thing...it would indeed be natural...considering animals were carrying the gene, to be able to produce such offspring! Can you argue that they would have more odds stacked against them while out in the wild? Yes. Just like if you threw any of these bright colored morphs out in the wild...they'd stick out like a sore thumb.
    *Jumps off my soap box*
  11. Michele

    Michele Chi Super Dog Administrator

    No. Snakes are supposed to have scales.
  12. DanDavis

    DanDavis Esquire

    I have to agree with Michele, snakes are meant to have scales.

    Also a scaleless snake occurring naturally in the wild would be next to impossible. The breeder bred two snakes with scales missing from their heads to produce the above snake, the likelihood of those two snakes meeting by chance in the wild are incredibly slim.

    No doubt the breeder will go on to bred it to something else, creating more snakes the lack scales, but more importantly their major sensory organ - heat pits.
  13. RockitShip

    RockitShip Puppy

    I think they are beautiful, but after working at a breeding facility with silky bearded dragons and scaleless rat snakes I can honestly say that breeding scaleless snakes and lizards who would otherwise naturally have scales is animal cruelty. They suffer from multiple health issues, are constantly suffering from skin problems (mostly fungus... you have to keep them extra moist or they will dry out- it is unavoidable), and often disembowel themselves on even smooth surfaces because that skin is paper thin. Almost translucent.
  14. DancesWithCurs

    DancesWithCurs Good Dog

    I'm not focused on it's not natural. It's a....weird thing to be focused on here. I'm more concerned with animal health. I'm not a fan of things that cause health problems, so you'll never see spider BPs, enigma leos, or scaleless anything in my collection and I'm just fine with that. To each his own in that regard, I suppose. Most people don't have a problem with it because "it can still breed" is often the benchmark for health but no one really wants to put any real money down on researching the gene to see if the wobble can actually be safely eradicated. It'd be great if as breeders of reptiles we could collectively start to take things like neurological defects and inbreeding depression in mind when we pair things off, but I doubt this will happen until something like sterility starts popping up all over the lines
  15. Chances of the scaleless thriving in the wild are definitely slim. Just as any of the hundreds of bright eye catching morphs. Thing is, these animals are all kept in captivity, in tubs in our snakerooms. They will never have to be out in the wild trying to survive on their own. I just get a bit irritated because MOST (not all) of the anti scaleless folks, are the same people who are just fine with wobbly spiders, and kinked caramel albinos, etc. Pretty hypocritical if you ask me. There is scaleless in other species too, not just the balls.
  16. DancesWithCurs

    DancesWithCurs Good Dog

    Whoops double posted
  17. innoko

    innoko Big Dog

    Sometimes they look pretty striking, but mostly they smack like a crime against nature, IMO. Intentionally breeding an animal that can barely survive, and is even a danger to itself in captivity? NOPE. BPs in particular have enough genetic problems within the established morphs, hate to see MORE ridiculous shit being introduced just for profit.
  18. Celestial88

    Celestial88 Good Dog

    While I'm not a fan of scaleless snakes, I've never heard of any legit health issues with them. They still have their ventral scales so they still get around, they eat without issues, shed without issues.
  19. Thank you. Well said. They seem to do just as well as any other captives do.

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