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Safe or unsafe?

_unoriginal

Cow Dog
Okay so here are my thoughts since I couldn't tell you earlier.

On the surface, I can see why it might scare someone but I think it's important to know your dog. Know your dogs' triggers and always be paying attention.

If these dogs had a treat trigger that caused a fight between dogs, I'd hope the owner would recognize that and not put the child in harms way.

Both dogs are excited and playful but I'm not seeing super amped, over threshold behavior from any of them.

If anything, perhaps the black and white dog should not have been loose while the other two were restrained. It could cause some frustration but none of the dogs seem to be DA, specifically with the other dogs on the property.

My only real issue was the few seconds to a minute that she was turned away. The actions above are only acceptable (IMO) if the owner is carefully assessing the behavior and ready to step in at any moment. With her back turned or while looking at something else, she's not giving her undivided attention to a child with dogs and a possible trigger. Granted, the two restrained dogs can't get to one another but the child could easily get caught off guard next to an amped up dog.
 

BCdogs

Good Dog
Super Moderator
The only thing that was problematic to me was the loose dog. I don't know, I guess it's a "know your dogs" kind of thing. If I were the parent, I would be much more comfortable with my child working one-on-one, or with all of the dogs tethered. It's just one of those situations that I wouldn't even risk.

That said, the dogs all seemed very comfortable and happy to me, no visible tension.
 

_unoriginal

Cow Dog
Another thing to go with my trigger post is that I have 2 bull breed dogs who are completely fine working for their treats or playing together with treats or toys without becoming possessive. So I do play with them together and will distribute toys and treats together. I definitely think it's a "know thy dog" situation and I would assume that this person knows her dogs.
 

Jazzy

GRCH Dog
I would agree with Uno.

I would also add that I thought all 3 dogs were amazingly calm; and apparently my dog really is a complete psycho - who knew? :lol: (the energy level of that little boy alone would have Veronica winding up into overdrive - never mind him waving his arms around with treats in them!)

As an aside; I recognized the loose dog Helena - and then I checked the youtube user name - the owner used to be an active forum member - I think maybe not here though - maybe the other (now pretty much defunct) pit bull forum. From what I remember Helena is about 8 or so now - and I believe she was always a super gentle, laid back dog.
 

kwestcott

Little Dog
My only real problem with it is like uno says, that the mother turns her back to them for a minute. The fact that you hear somebody say "Stay away from the chain" makes me think that somebody else might be watching, but who knows. I agree that the dogs look relaxed and happy to be playing with the little boy though.

From a glance they look like responsible owners, both chained dogs have decent chain spots and the dogs all look healthy. :)
 

Lillie May

Good Dog
The reason this bothers me so much is food is always a trigger, combined with the little boy's excitability. Granted, you can know your dogs & 99% it could be fine. But there's always that 1% where the dog(s) want the treat, or they're having an off day. No animal is 100% predictable, nor are kids for that matter! I've got both, I know.

Kids are the #1 victim of dog bites, it's a personal gripe of mine to help educate. The other two things that bother me are, when she turns her back and the fact she's too far away if in that split second it takes for a fight to break out.
 

Leslie H

Good Dog
As others have said, no qualms except the loose dog. Body language of all dogs was happy and respectful of the boy, and he acted the way kids do w/dogs.
 

ruffiangirl

Little Dog
My only problem is the same as Uno, the mother turning her back, that is how things happen and no one knows why it happened. The dogs dont seem like the boy feeding them treats is out of the ordinary, its like any other day so they are not super excited about it, which goes back to knowing your dog. personally i will never trust any animal 100%, they are animals.
 

_unoriginal

Cow Dog
The reason this bothers me so much is food is always a trigger, combined with the little boy's excitability. Granted, you can know your dogs & 99% it could be fine. But there's always that 1% where the dog(s) want the treat, or they're having an off day. No animal is 100% predictable, nor are kids for that matter! I've got both, I know.
I don't know... This isn't a black and white area. We could tweak the scenario slightly and say that a well-bred APBT that has never shown a history or behavior of being a manbiter and has never even shown a hint of being the least bit HA is not to be trusted 100% of the time because no dog is ever 100% predictable. Would you agree?
 

Lillie May

Good Dog
As others have said, no qualms except the loose dog. Body language of all dogs was happy and respectful of the boy, and he acted the way kids do w/dogs.
Yep, the loose dog. My dogs are happy and respectful, good body language, but that doesn't stop them from sometimes deciding it's their turn when it's not. Oh, and no one is in front of the dogs! How would they see the subtle signs?
 

Lillie May

Good Dog
I don't know... This isn't a black and white area. We could tweak the scenario slightly and say that a well-bred APBT that has never shown a history or behavior of being a manbiter and has never even shown a hint of being the least bit HA is not to be trusted 100% of the time because no dog is ever 100% predictable. Would you agree?
No, not a history of being a manbiter, the genetics of the APBT. What do we teach everyone here? Be prepared for the possibility of a fight breaking out, yes? Dogs are dogs, but I'm talking about safety.
 

_unoriginal

Cow Dog
No, not a history of being a manbiter, the genetics of the APBT. What do we teach everyone here? Be prepared for the possibility of a fight breaking out, yes? Dogs are dogs, but I'm talking about safety.

I understand what you're talking about but you can't pick and choose which behaviors of a dog (that you don't know) are 100% rock solid and which are not.

I'm just saying that you're being super ultra picky for what seems like the sake of being picky. There's always things to find wrong with every video, especially those relating to bull breeds. But you don't have to pick it apart when it's really not as terrible as you're making it out to be.
 

_unoriginal

Cow Dog
For the sake of argument, let's compare this situation to the little girl that was feeding 6 bully mutts in the kitchen.

In that situation, you had 6 loose dogs and a ton of food (my dogs are food possessive, not treat possessive). The boy has 2 restrained dogs and 1 loose dog.

The mere fact that the dogs are restrained is part of why I don't see a huge alarming issue with this. You can easily escape harm's way by leaving the chainspot. The dog can't follow and you can't get hurt when you're out of reach.

And regarding the subtle body signals. I don't find them to be too subtle. I can watch my dogs from 10' away and pick apart their body language from the distance.

I would call the body language subtle to someone that doesn't realize that every posture, tail swish, and ear twitch actually serves a purpose and has meaning.
 

Lillie May

Good Dog
I understand what you're talking about but you can't pick and choose which behaviors of a dog (that you don't know) are 100% rock solid and which are not.

I'm just saying that you're being super ultra picky for what seems like the sake of being picky. There's always things to find wrong with every video, especially those relating to bull breeds. But you don't have to pick it apart when it's really not as terrible as you're making it out to be.
I swear to you I'm not trying to be an argue monger or be ultra picky. That's why I wanted others opinions. I think because I've seen things go south myself and broken up more than my fair share of spats/all out fights, that I take the better safe than sorry approach. Especially when it comes to kids. Does that make sense?
 

_unoriginal

Cow Dog
I swear to you I'm not trying to be an argue monger or be ultra picky. That's why I wanted others opinions. I think because I've seen things go south myself and broken up more than my fair share of spats/all out fights, that I take the better safe than sorry approach. Especially when it comes to kids. Does that make sense?

It does make sense. And I totally get what you're saying but at the same time, you should also be permitted to enjoy your dogs and let other people enjoy them too rather than spending all of your time worrying all the time.
 

Lillie May

Good Dog
It does make sense. And I totally get what you're saying but at the same time, you should also be permitted to enjoy your dogs and let other people enjoy them too rather than spending all of your time worrying all the time.
I hear you, I do enjoy my dogs immensely along with everyone else who visits here. I don't worry over them, however I always make sure both kids and dogs are safe, I call this being a responsible dog owner. All 4 are mixed breeds, 2 are generic bull breeds. We have so many visitors, it's something I've always done. I used to teach dog safety to kids, the subject is near and dear to my heart. I'm very appreciative of everyone's input. I want to raise awareness is the bottom line with this thread.
 

shotgun_wg

Little Dog
My 4yr old feeds with me nearly every afternoon. 12 dogs all on tie outs. She does fine and so do the dogs. I do not feed if any dog is loose. She is not that far from me at any point around the dogs. She is taught not to get wild around the dogs. A simple excited dog playing could spark trouble or even just scratches from a dog trying to play. Trouble happens when least expected so always expect it and don't have trouble .


Shotgun
Arkansas