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Requirements for being a reputable AmBully breeder?

Discussion in 'Bully Breeder Discussion' started by bahamutt99, Oct 26, 2008.

  1. bahamutt99

    bahamutt99 Stealth ninja

    In the APBT, we tell people to look for a responsible breeder who titles and health-tests. We place emphasis on working sports and working drive, since it is a working breed. We like to see breeders who compete with their dogs in some kind of field that tests the dogs' bodies and minds. Good breeders are also largely expected to do at least some showing, keep with the medium size range, and not breed excessively. And finally, the refrain on health-testing is always OFA hips. (Not everybody subscribes to the OFA deal, but in a group there will usually be at least one person who asks for that info on an announced breeding.)

    I was just wondering what are the rules of thumb for someone looking for a reputable breeder of the American Bully? What are the criteria by which people sift out the good breeders among the chaff? To clarify, I'm not referring to standards of care where the dogs are fed and loved, since that should be a given. I'm asking what the basic factors are in a high-quality breeding program for the AmBully. How are the men set apart from the boys?
     
  2. bahamutt99

    bahamutt99 Stealth ninja

    None at all? LOL
     
  3. Zoe

    Zoe GRCH Dog

    I thought it was a great question and was very interested to see an answer! lol
     
  4. I think they should have the same ethics as APBT breeders, the only problem is they do not have a registry that they can prove themselves in. The ABKC only holds these "fun" shows and the UKC and ADBA rejects these dogs (unless for weightpulling). People have to rely on word of mouth from others that purchase from bully kennels, which can be biased to say the least. Being as most bully breeders are breeding for aesthetics like big heads, heavy bone structure, short statures, etc etc. it's hard to find these reputable bully breeders. My wife and I are actually starting a kennel and we enjoy some of the qualities of the American Bully but feel there is a serious need for improvement. The only way to correct these faults is to outcross using APBTs for those much needed qualities. We catch so much heat from both sides of the fence.Some of the bully folks think we are defeating the purpose of the AmBully by taking away the extremeness of the breed and alot of APBT folks don't believe in breeding unless you can title these dogs in UKC/ADBA conformation events.

    We may not be able to have these dogs titled in UKC/ADBA yet but our goals for the future is to basically select traits that are similiar to the APBT breeder's ...soundness across the boards. A good temperament, decent drive (not as high as an APBT per say), intellegence and the most important, HEALTH.

    The biggest factor in a reputable breeding program other than performance is placement. You don't want to sell to just anyone. We would require a list of names of pre-screened people interested in our dogs before even doing any breeding. I think this is important especially with this breed. Bullies are a dime a dozen and quality is few and far between.
     
  5. pitchik

    pitchik Good Dog

    I can only speak of a breeder that I know.
    And of breeders that I listen to on oter bully sites.
    She has a quality APBT that is Championed out. Also trained as an assistance dog for her kin in a wheelchair. The dog is a therapy dog and participates actively in this duty. The dog is absolutly gorgaous, well trained and smart.

    This dog was bred to a "bully". The stud had participated in the ABKC and won in all class events. He wasnt too big, too wode, too low, but just "right". He was active and had alot of drive.

    I think she was looking for a dog that would compliment her dog, but throw a bullier style conformation then what she had. This was Ambullies were created, that were considered an American Bully AND still hopefully retained the drive and great health of the parents.

    To me they both sound like good breeders.

    Other breeders I see are looking for the same quality. They want drive. They want athletism. They want a bully dog but one in good health.

    True there are no "real" registries to get these dogs properly titled in but we suppose they will come eventually. I hope they do.

    AND the BIGGESt problem AMBully breeders face to day are the fact that bad people have aquired these dogs and have run their name into smut. The breeders-real breeders today are being concious of this problem and are working hard to prevent it from happening. But just as in APBT bad breeders, you have bad breeders in every breed.

    I hope all works out for them. I have nothing against the bullies. If created properly, they are magnificent dogs that deserve someone to stand up for them as they do for others!
     
  6. Pipbull

    Pipbull Big Dog

    I never really thought I'd be responding to this, but here's what I would like to see from an American Bully breeder. If it is a new breed that wants to be taken seriously, they need to clearly cut the lines between AmBullies and APBTs and ASTs. They need to take the dogs that best embody the AmBully and close the books on them, like the AKC did with the American Staffordshire Terrier. From there, strict conformation and temperament standards and culling what doesn't fit the bill. Basically, the same standards that I would hold for any forming of a new breed. This includes dedicated health and temperament testing, since there would be a good amount of inbreeding.

    The one part I am on the fence about is the purpose of the breed. Bred for companionship and showing? I wouldn't hold it to working standards because it is not a working breed.

    Also, I understand that forming a new breed requires producing more litters than normal, so that you can filter out the good. And I have no problems with that as long as the dogs aren't sold to the general public (or end up in shelters. Or the news.)

    These are just general standards that I would like to see, but I don't understand the breed enough to go into specifics like breed standard or anything.
     
  7. BrazilianPitbulls

    BrazilianPitbulls Little Dog

    see that's the problem i see in the american bully right now...is the responsible ones dont get the credit...people are also kennel blind and see being a breeder as a business instead of a person who's only purpose is to preserve the breed of choice and make sure the pups are in healthy homes..to me a breeder really truly breeds for himself but if he is to sell these puppy it is his commitment and dedication to make sure they end up in homes in which will not compromise the breed or hurt that dog and is somebody who is also active in the breed or at least truly knows about the breed and not only wants that pup because they think its cute...

    and this is what i keep saying because I do know a lot of people who have "american bully" in which they don't they just have bad bred dogs who happen to be registered as american bullies or american pit bull terriers...and what i'm seeing is Well i bought this dog for i dunno 3000 then I SHOULD BREED IT...the purpose of what a breeder truly is the responsibilities are not in tact in their minds...
    and that plays into BSL big time...
    and I'm usually the peace maker I appreciate UKC ADBA and the american bully and i try to go about it the nice way or friendly way but recently I have been exploding on some because their ignorance angers me....I mean its touchy subject but we really need to push it on being responsible owners and breeders and truly NOT EVERYONE is cut out of that responsibility of being a breeder...
     


  8. How right you are! This is the exact reason the American Bully is looked at the way it is. They are looked at as exotic or luxury PETS and if they cost so much, then hell, they must be worth breeding....lol. Sad, I know. Like I said earlier we catch alot of heat when mentioning the breeding of American Bullies because of these "bybs". My idea of a well bred American Bully is not the same as most people that breed these dogs. Alot of those so called bully breeders have no business owning a dog, let alone breeding them.
     
  9. This is Deebo, my American Bully bred right here by us. We used only 25% Razor's Edge on this breeding along with some Wilder and Boudreaux. Only a few pups made the cut from this breeding but it was worth it for this bad boy!! He is our idea of a well bred AmBully. We don't care much big weighta as he weighs in @ 68lbs.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Bullies going at it (playing of course)...lol

    [​IMG]
     
  10. Miakoda

    Miakoda GRCH Dog

    My biggest problem with the American Bully is it is a "pet" breed. Now, don't take that the wrong way as pets are wonderful, but it is not a working breed. Take a step back and look around at all the other breeds that are bred for looks and companionship: [English] Bulldog, Pug, Pekinese, Shar Pei, etc. Look at the horrific health issues and even temperament issues that have come about from people breeding to exaggerate particular features that they think look "cool". My concern is that the American Bully is only going to follow in those footseps........and in many cases it already has.
     
  11. bahamutt99

    bahamutt99 Stealth ninja

    That's very interesting. Brings about another point. Where is the line drawn between a good American Bully and a bad APBT? Does a bad APBT automatically qualify to be a good American Bully?

    That is a good point, and the ABKC as a registry is going to need to step it up and make bully-oriented sanctioned events. But in the meantime, if there is any focus on working at all, why not use the all-breed working sport clubs?
     

  12. A good point as well. There are many other ways to prove one's stock besides having titles. OFA testing is another thing you don't really see in bully breeding, a breed SUPPOSEDLY comprised of AmStaff and UKC show lines.....definately something a breeder should do.
     
  13. xdogs

    xdogs Good Dog

    Maybe the bullies suffer from the same affliction as the APBT.. people see the extreme owners and breeders out there and assume that they are the majority....however, until somebody convinces me otherwise, I kind of doubt it.

    This is probably a very pessimistic view on the subject (and, correct me if I am wrong), but if the dogs in their own community are revered as freaks and monsters, and the most "freakiest" and badest monsters are what gets people excited... I doubt that you can talk those folks into a standard. The attraction seems to be: be waaaaayyyyyy outside of any standard that could possibly be drawn. If the dog had to walk on it's nipples.. now THAT would be crazy a$$ pitchin.

    I know you are asking about repsonsible breeders and that probably excludes the breeders above, but here is a budding new breed without official breed recognition and I see VERY LITTLE attempt to change that. Generally, new breed communities try to conform to a self set standard to be taken seriously (whether it be in the conformation ring or in the working arena, such as Border Collies). I just don't see any effort by any considerable amount of people to agree to a look, because the mantra seems to be: breed what you like, or what is freakish enough to get you a buck.

    If I was to look for a reputable AmBullie breeder, I would look for an Amstaff or APBT breeder who fulfills my standard of "reputable" and who breeds heavy dogs or had an accident with the neighbor's EB.
     
  14. and here is your answer in a simple sentence why the ambullie community cannot come to an agreement on a conformation standard.

    There is way to many styles(american bullie, shorty/pocket bullie, and ur xl bullie) right now and each with its own even amount of fanbase. I am a huge fan of every style. They have alot in common but yet so different. I dont know why we need to set one set standard for the breed. The only people bashing the american bullie are the ones who don't understand it and have not been involved with it.

    You guys like to stereotype the ambully with bad breeders. I would like to let you know the apbt breeders have done alot alot worse to the apbt and there is alot of proof of that. Some might not health test or whatever but hey i gurantee 80% of the apbt owners on this site didn't get their dog from a place that health tested. Every thread i see on the american bullie someone is bashing and im really get tired of it. I just want to be involved in an ambully community without all this negativity. Ive left alot of boards because of that. Until someone shows me some of the horrors the ambully breeders have done compared to the apbt then i will shut up. Im not trying to offend no one but im tired of being offended.
     
  15. Oh ya by why one set standard i ment along the lines of for example, english bulldog, olde english bulldog, amercian bulldog, nepolitan mastiff, mastiffs etc......

    And i read somewhere else someone talkin about crossin dogs and creating a new breed was bad and caused health problems. WHAT DO YOU THINK AN APBT IS? A TERRIER CROSS! Razors edge is a line bred apbt/amstaff to create a specific look so its not crossed with another dog. I havent seen any proof that there have been crosses but i dont doubt it.
     
  16. bahamutt99

    bahamutt99 Stealth ninja

    TrackStar, in my experience the people "bashing" the American Bully are those that are simply tired of people calling them Pit Bulls. Do you have any idea how frustrating it is to be walking a standard 40 or 50 pound adult in good shape and have people suggest that it's not the real article because it's not 100 lbs with a huge head? We simply want to see the line drawn now that the AmBully has its own name, type and registry. Honestly, I've heard that old row about APBTs being mutts so many times it's nauseating. A cross done in the 1800s does not equal a mongrel today. Hell, the Doberman started off using several different breeds, but you don't see people calling them mutts now that they've got a set type.

    Now. Back to the subject at hand. TrackStar, I'm guessing you're an American Bully breeder? Let me ask you, on the topic of health problems, do you do the OFA health screening on your dogs? I think we can all agree that once you stop breeding for performance, you run the risk of incurring problems on the structural front. As a breeder, what steps do you take to ensure that you're not perpetuating genetic problems? What are your criteria for figuring out which of your dogs are breeding quality, and which to spay/neuter and place as pets?
     
  17. xdogs

    xdogs Good Dog

    WORD! So many breeds have been created AFTER the APBT standard was "created".. it's ludicrous to even use that as an argument.
     
  18. xdogs

    xdogs Good Dog

    ..what I am interested in as well
     
  19. No i am not a breeder. I kind of see what you guys are saying about the health screening and i agree alot of people do not but i have not seen anymore health problems than any other breed of dog. I dont think the true intention of the american bully right now is for performance. I honestly beleive and kinda agree that they might be breeding the american bullie for an image. But alot of these dogs are going to pet homes. 90% of dog owners i believe dont use a dog for its intended purpose. I think dogs now a day a dog should be breed to be a pet/family dog. On topic I beleive good breeder should health test, have the dogs sold before they are even born, and two dogs that have been genetically proven to have breed other good lookin bullies of the parents caliber or if not better than their parents. I would never buy a pup from someone who has more than 10 dogs on their property. One it shows you they are not concentrating on bettering the breed but out for money and two thats when your gonna see the health problems. I beleive even if you health test you are gonna still have a few pups who are gonna have health problems. You cant always 100% of time have the perfect outcome. Do we as humans health test? Yet we still seem to see more problems among ourselves than we do of dogs.
     
  20. bahamutt99

    bahamutt99 Stealth ninja

    Fair enough. I don't think any of us has problems with the American Bully being bred as a pet breed. (Well, some of us might, but oh well.) Just that with any purebred, there are set criteria by which a breeder rules out the ones that should go on to perpetuate their genes, and which ones should be spayed/neutered and placed in pet homes. Forgive me for saying so, but it seems like a staggering number of people into AmBullies want them for breeding -- I know, one can say the same thing about APBTs -- and that breeders aren't requiring pet puppies to be altered. So my point with this thread is that anybody can get two AmBullies and call themselves a breeder, since there are few measuring sticks in place to decide who is a good breeder and who is not.

    I do have to disagree with you on the under 10 dogs rule. The number of dogs kept does not mean that those dogs are going to have health problems. Genetically, that just doesn't add up. Some people have more dogs than that because they keep most or all of litters they've bred, in order to see how those dogs turn out at maturity. It's how the person cares for and acts with their 10+ dogs that defines their value as a breeder.

    Finally, as far as AmBullies being as healthy as any other breed, that's apt. But a lot of breeds aren't healthy. Folks have said that some AmBullies are built like English Bulldogs, and this is true. The English bulldog is the #1 most dysplastic breed out there, at 73.7% dysplastic. (And the sad thing is, the EB people aren't even utilizing health testing to its fullest. Only 410 dogs tested up to 12/07.) The APBT is 23.7% dysplastic in the OFA database. If you put the AmBully as somewhere between the APBT and the EB in structure, that indicates that they should be having far more health testing done than they do at present. I only know of one breeder who is said to health test, and that's Ruckus. I wish more would follow that example. What you said about health problems coming out of health tested parents is true, but using the health testing tool enables people to breed away from those problems.

    Anyway, that's my two cents for the day. :)
     

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