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Raw vs. Kibble

Discussion in 'Dog Debates' started by kady05, Aug 27, 2011.

  1. LilianaLove

    LilianaLove GRCH Dog

    Dogs certainly have teeth capable of chewing. Lateral jaw movements, no, but they do rotate their mouths and the food they're eating to better chew it. Dogs have what are known as carnassial teeth, which is a transitional tooth between the premolars and molars. These teeth, one on each side of the mouth, are there for ripping and tearing chunks of meat. However, behind those teeth lie two molars. Those molars' jobs are the same in canines as they are in people, for smashing and mashing. While canine molars are more equipped to crush bone, they are still capable of crushing fruits and vegetables. They may not be good for, say, smashing lettuce or other leafy greens, but they seem to work fine for berries, green beans, etc. Whenever I feed blueberries, I always some stuck in those back molars.

    In my opinion, I would think the lack of digestive bacteria in a dog's mouth would be more of an issue for digestion of plant tissue than the lack of 'chewing' ability. Since saliva is a bad digester of fat and protein, it makes sense that dogs do not need to spend much time chewing, as they do not digest starch the way humans do.

    Just my thoughts. Dog most definitely chew, maybe not the same way people do, but they are capable of chewing using their molars to chew/mash/smash their food prior to swallowing, and I find they do this often when digesting plant materials. This still doesn't explain why chewing is the only means of digesting plant materials though, or why it is different if a dog chews it rather than it is mashed by hand.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 3, 2012
  2. Joey&Zoey

    Joey&Zoey Good Dog

    Things that the body cannot and are not, meant to break down and vitalize with by nature, that are given to said human/animal to "live off" of, as the staple diet, will pop up down the road sooner or later, negatively. Ever wonder why people/pets, suddenly get struck with cancer or a tumor, when they've been "healthy" inside and out. A jeopardized immune system can only function for so long, before the walls come crashing down. Things can run on cheap parts, you just bring down the life expectancy.
     
  3. cliffdog

    cliffdog Good Dog

    I have never, in my life, seen a dog chew anything to a paste, like herbivores and true omnivores do. Why? Because they cannot. Well, at least I imagine it would take a very, VERY long time for a dog to do so given the lack of 'proper equipment'.

    I still don't see why, if dogs can digest whole vegetables completely untouched by human hands, unprocessed in any way, they would ever starve. A dog in a suburban environment could survive off the same diet that suburban-residing deer do, if that was the case. And yet in many suburban areas, you will not find it entirely uncommon to see a street dog made of just skin and bones.
     
  4. LilianaLove

    LilianaLove GRCH Dog

    Well I don't really have a choice, so when you can cure hereditary liver malformations and allow my dog to eat meat again, please, feel free. Until then, I'd rather my dog not puke every day and urinate and drink constantly and watch his liver values elevate to fatal levels. :)
     
  5. LilianaLove

    LilianaLove GRCH Dog

    I don't know, I don't have those answers. In a suburban environment, you don't have a lot of options, food wise. You would be surprised how few varieties of healthy vegetation there is out there. In suburbia, it's mostly pesticide-laced grass and alien shrubbery. Not a lot of healthful options out there for the foraging dog.

    I'm honestly just curious as to why dogs cannot digest fruits and vegetables, as is claimed. I have not seen this to be a problem. What my dog had the most issue with was if he had too many potatoes in his diet. He would poop like 6 times a day. He wasn't a fan of the spinach diet we made him, so we stopped using spinach. Other than that, he was good.

    I'm just trying to figure out, if dogs can't digest fruits and vegetables, how my dog not only is alive and well but better than he was before.
     
  6. K9 Love

    K9 Love Good Dog

    LL, Do you process his fruits and veggies at all? Like steam, mash, puree etc? (Sorry if I missed this!)

    I don't believe that dogs can't process fruits/veggies at all, just not completely by themselves. Meaning, it needs to be broken down in some way shape or form before they can gain any nutrition.

    Any raw/barf feeder I know that includes fruits/veggies does something before feeding it to their dog, something to partially start breaking down the cell walls so their dog can gain nutrition. Dogs have the digestive tract of a carnivore, ie, short, while mammals biologically designed to process plant matter have long digestive tracts. In my mind, this is part of the reason you pre-process plant matter, without pre-processing there isn't enough time in a dogs digestive tract to properly break down plant material to effectively gain and retain nutrition, cows have numerous stomachs to do this job as well as the teeth to make digesting more efficient. Dogs have neither numerous stomachs, a long digestive tract or teeth appropriate for the job.

    Once again, I'm not saying that you're wrong in feeding your dog the way you do. I have no doubt that you're feeding your dog exactly what he needs, my post is just in regards to a general discussion on dogs eating plant material. :)
     
  7. tracie2114

    tracie2114 Little Dog

    Exactly what I have been saying
     
  8. cliffdog

    cliffdog Good Dog

    This is exactly what I have,been saying :lol:

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using Tapatalk 2
     
  9. Savage Destiny

    Savage Destiny Big Dog

    The problem with dogs and plant matter is that dogs lack the digestive enzyme cellulase, which breaks down cellulose walls in plant matter. Since dogs cannot break down cellulose, they cannot gain any nutritional value from plant matter unless it has been processed. Pureeing, juicing, steaming, and other forms of cooking break down the cellulose walls of plants and allow dogs to access the nutrients. Raw, unprocessed plant matter cannot be utilized.

    That's why dogs poop out chunks of, say, whole raw carrot if you feed it to them. :)
     
  10. Elliehanna

    Elliehanna GRCH Dog

    have I posted before raw and after on here yet? well I am ganna do it with Goren, Logan is still into transition and I think he is in a crap coat faze.

    before raw at probably 55 lbs (this is him when he was on a combo of Orijen, oatmeal, eggs and olive oil, totalling over 2x the amount of calories needed....his coat looked pretty good though)
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    this is him at 58 lbs the day before his last vet visit on raw since right around January
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    you can see that the way Goren was going he was going to die, I tried many high quality kibbles but ended up where I should have been when I realized he was way under weight (its kinda like when you realize someone you see all the time is taller...it doesn't happen overnight but you see the person every day...I felt so bad for him that I didn't see it sooner) his body just can't tolerate kibble anymore so yes I say Raw all the way
     
  11. GoingPostal

    GoingPostal Good Dog

    I don't really care, kibble can be good or crap and raw can be done right or wrong. Not everyone is going to want to do the work and mess of raw and I do think dogs do "fine" generally on kibble anyways. For me raw was the only thing that finally dropped some weight off my old girl and she looks better on it. My male is just switched, my younger female is still on kibble until it runs out. I feed raw because it's cheaper, there's WAY less poop to clean up and the dogs love it.
     
  12. Elliehanna

    Elliehanna GRCH Dog

    so true about the poop and the dogs loving it GoingPostal, I forgot to add I have seen a nice increase in energy and a decrease in hyperactivity in both my boys on raw and this is even though I don't get to walk them much now with the baby and how the weather has been (example is tonight is a walk night...it is raining for the maybe 6th time in 3 months...then I am out of town for 5 days leaving the hubby here who works over 12 hours a day to feed the boys) so I am very happy with everything, I love my boys and sometimes it might be more expensive to feed raw but other times it is free (kicking myself still for not seeing the voicemail on 3 freezers full of meat that had to go before they were out of my reach)
     
  13. ShakaZ

    ShakaZ Good Dog

    Women if any of the reluctance is due to the myth of raw meat making a dog mean? What did people feed before kibble came along?
     

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