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Raw vs. Kibble

Discussion in 'Dog Debates' started by kady05, Aug 27, 2011.

  1. pbk1776

    pbk1776 Puppy

    I feed my dogs mix of raw and kibble (science diet)
    and special treats
     
  2. kady05

    kady05 Krypto Super Dog

    Wow.. that's quite the combo. I'd ditch the Science Diet.
     
  3. kayla baxter

    kayla baxter Big Dog

    Mixing raw and SD is like taking a perfectly cooked, perfectly nutritionally balanced, perfect dinner and mixing it with the garbage from a McDonalds dumpster...
     
  4. kady05

    kady05 Krypto Super Dog

    :lol: that's what I was thinking!
     
  5. adjecyca

    adjecyca Good Dog

    if you choose to mix with kibble i suggest getting a much higher quality kibble, check out natures variety's instinct, you can read about it here:Natures Variety Instinct Dry Dog Food | Review and Rating

    or you could look at other grain free foods:
    Best Dry Grain Free Dog Foods

    there are a whole lot of other good foods that are not on that list but science diet is terrible
     
  6. MMSmith

    MMSmith Good Dog

    The part I bolded is why I don't feed raw. You have little proof that feeding raw is what's best for your dog. You're just assuming that it is based off of a few visual markers you have noticed. That to me is disturbing. "Well, I've noticed this and this, so it must be good, right?" People who snort cocaine often feel superhuman strength and mental clarity...does that mean it's good for you? Do you have frequent blood panels done on your dog to make sure that her internal organs and other systems are functioning properly? Do you monitor her health strictly? To feed raw and not have a strong understanding of canine nutrition requirements is a disaster waiting to happen.

    Say what you want about kibble, but it has had the hell researched out of it. Millions of dollars worth of research and expert opinion and analysis have been poured into the pet food industry. I'm going to believe scientists and veterinarians before I believe a lay person.
     
  7. tracie2114

    tracie2114 Little Dog

    There is a lady on the raw feeding yahoo group who posted today because she has been feeding her malamute raw all her life and the dog is now 10 years old. Because of her age she wanted to do a full work up to make sure she is doing well... The vet said her weight was excellent, the amount of muscle mass was impressive and asked if she had a dental cleaning recently because her teeth were perfect and said her overall appearance he would have guessed her age to be 5years old and even at 5 years her dog looked better than most 5 year olds. She told him she feeds the raw diet and the dog had never had her teeth cleaned in her life. She was waiting for the negative after he ranted about what great shape this 10 year old dog was in, but instead he said she is remarkable. Said he wanted to do a full blood panel, fecal and urinalysis (this was all part of the full work up) and she had just got the results back. Urine and fecal were clean. He was extremely impressed that her blood work numbers were all exactly on point!

    So this to me is why I feed raw... Not only do I see the physical improvements... But it's success stories like this that make me happy I made the switch. I will also get blood work yearly on my dogs to make sure they are not deficient in anything. This is not the first success story I have heard, there are numerous knowledgable people on the rawfeeding group that have 10, 20, 30 years experience and success stories. Not just visible but proven through lab results. They are available to answer questions so it's not just throw your dogs some meat and their coat gets shiny so we must be doing it right. I ask a ton of questions (both on the yahoo group and here) to make sure i am giving my dog a variety and meeting all their needs. I saw it myself first hand when I fed my first pit bull the BARF diet 12 years ago.

    I am not saying raw is for everyone. It gets to be almost an obsession with trying to find a variety if different meats at good prices. (and I never would have thought I would be butchering a deer in my kitchen lol).. I know there are ppl out there that feed good quality kibble and that is fine for them. I have nothing against feeding kibble ... For me the RAW diet is fun and my dogs are much more excited about dinner time and it's very fun to watch them try a new food or trying to crack an egg... It has turned into an interactive social time that we do as a "pack" rather than just throwing some kibble in a bowl... And that's why I, personally, feed kibble. I feel it's everyone's decision and feeding one versus the other doesn't make anyone a better pet owner...
     
  8. deezuhl

    deezuhl Little Dog

    Im only 2 months in. I'll report back as more time goes on. :)
     
  9. deezuhl

    deezuhl Little Dog


    I read that same story yesterday. Long term results is what convinced me to try it out.
     
  10. LilianaLove

    LilianaLove GRCH Dog

    I guess you missed the part where he ate a diet of raw vegetables and fruit (with boiled potatoes) as his diet for the past 8 months. We would add cottage cheese sometimes, but cautiously, so as to not add too much protein. He's perfectly healthy and his liver is quite happy.
     
  11. Team Peanut

    Team Peanut GRCH Dog

    i HAD to do raw with Peanut. He was always having diarrhea, losing weight looking scrawny not that much energy just over all he did bad no matter what kibble i did with him. when i finally put Peanut on raw he made huge positive changes. but 1 year into raw i did run a full blood panel, UA on him to make sure i wasn't screwing him over because i am not a nutritionist. I got his results back and the vet was very happy with him and his results and she knows his history and diet. so for him it is a good diet. now my parents dog she does really well on kibble so no reason to put her on raw. Peanut on her diet would not do well though she does great with it.

    your dogs look amazing btw :)
     
  12. cliffdog

    cliffdog Good Dog

    And you're telling me they weren't all processed? Not cut up or ground? Just whole unaltered vegetables?
     
  13. LilianaLove

    LilianaLove GRCH Dog

    They were mashed to assure proper distribution throughout the food of all necessary nutrients. But if you're implying he would not have been able to properly digest whole, uncooked fruits and vegetables is like saying a dog cannot process raw meat because kibble exists. You're drawing a conclusion from baseless points.
     
  14. cliffdog

    cliffdog Good Dog

    No, I'm drawing a conclusion from facts. Dogs cannot break down cellulose. The vegetables being processed makes them more "open" and bioavailable to the dog, in the same way that dogs can live on vegetarian kibbles. Thus the processing is what made the dog able to extract necessary nutrients from the plant matter. That at least is what I have learned from several hundreds of people who feed BARF and serve processed (ground, cut, mashed, mixed, whatever) vegetables to their dogs.
     
  15. LilianaLove

    LilianaLove GRCH Dog

    Can you explain to me the difference between a mashed vegetable and a chewed vegetable and the differences in the dog's ability to digest it? All of my dogs chew their fruits and veges. To me, it seems, dogs chew what they need to chew and don't chew what they don't need to chew. When I fed Lily raw, it never occurred to her to simply swallow the piece of chicken bone. She probably easily could've, but she didn't, just like they chew their blueberries and their green beans.

    I'm genuinely curious. Obviously my dog lived fine on that diet, and I check my dogs' bloodwork more religiously than almost anyone out there.

    Secondly, the people feeding BARF are not feeding a meatless diet; like you said, they serve vegetables, but fruits and veges are not staples of the dogs' diets. My dog, literally, cannot eat meat. So, there really is no other option out there. He is alive, happy, playing flyball, and overall being a dog, that just doesn't eat meat. As long as you know what you're doing, you're good to go. Just like there are people out there that don't believe a dog can live alright on a raw diet, there are those that believe dogs require meat to survive. It's funny, because, if my dog ate meat as a staple in his diet, or even regularly, he would probably die from liver disease. :rolleyes:

    I'm not going to sit here and argue the science with you; I'm not a nutritionist, I don't have those answers. What I do know is in January, my dog was exhibiting symptoms of chronic hepatic disease, and now he's not. So, that's the only proof I have and I'd say it's pretty good proof.
     
  16. Team Peanut

    Team Peanut GRCH Dog

    this is the only thing that matters regardless of what type of diet. if your dog has issues on one type of diet you have to feed what works for the indvidual. overall health is most important. you see and your vet sees improvement then that is the right diet for that dog regardless of what is said on the internet.
     
  17. Cynthia

    Cynthia Good Dog

    Exactly!

    There is not one type of food out there that every dog will do good on. There is no catch all diet. What works for one dog another dog will do poorly on.

    IMO if your pet/animal is doing well on a diet stick to what works best for your animal! No matter what you feed there will always be someone who says you are doing it wrong.

    Stick with what works for you and your animals!
     
  18. Jazzy

    Jazzy GRCH Dog

    I think that is the best approach and outlook for any dog owner to have.
     
  19. K9 Love

    K9 Love Good Dog

    I feed raw mainly because the recalls that have amounted to thousands of pet deaths scare the shit out of me. Supposed "high quality" foods/brands doing stupid shit, or forgetting to do important shit and dogs dying because of it. The biggest reason I've fed raw for the past 4-5 years is because I want to be in control of what goes into my dog as much as possible. Clearly I don't raise the beef and slaughter it myself, but I personally feel the risk is greatly reduced by feeding human quality meats and "processing" it myself (which means cutting and bagging, in some cases rinsing and cleaning).

    Second reason I feed raw is because I personally feel it's what my dog is biologically designed to eat. It just makes perfect sense to me. Kibble hasn't been around that long, 50 years give or take, and I don't think that's long enough for my dogs digestive system to evolve. My dog's biological make up is designed for him to process, digest and shit out raw meat.

    Dogs with medical conditions that can't eat raw meat, obviously you wouldn't feed them raw meat. There are dogs that are allergic to certain kinds of meat. Clearly you wouldn't aggravate the issue by force feeding a dog raw that just can't handle it. But generally, IMO, optimally, most dogs would be fed a well balanced raw diet. All that said there's some amazing kibbles out there and dogs do just fine on them too.

    As for vegetables, I'm not convinced. I don't think fruits and vegetables are going to hurt anyones' dog, but I make no conscious effort to include any fruits or vegetables in my dogs diet, rather, in lieu, I ensure my dog eats larger amounts of grass fed beef/buffalo/lamb tripe. And there is definitely partially digested plant matter in those things, sometimes so much we have to shake them out... eeeeewwww! Hades is a grazer, and the grass comes out the exact same way it went in, and it appears that he's chewed it, his mouth moves while he plucks the grass, but clearly his teeth are just not designed properly to be able to grind it down enough for any kind of digestion to take place.

    I don't think kibbles the worst thing in the world to feed a dog, but I guess a study backed by commercial kibble companies that says raw is unbalanced and will kill your dog goes in one ear and out the other.

    4+ years of feeding raw here and I don't plan on quitting. Dog had bloodwork done a few months ago, vet said he's healthy as can be. If I have to kibble, I would do it begrudgingly, but there are some excellent kibbles out there now so I wouldn't beat myself up too bad.
     
  20. cliffdog

    cliffdog Good Dog

    For one thing, dogs cannot actually "chew." Chewing is another word for masticating. Masticating involves grinding. Dogs have neither the appropriate teeth nor the lateral jaw movement to grind vegetation. A dog's teeth are designed for the type of "chewing" that a carnivore does... Which is actually just tearing and crushing until the food is small enough to fit down the animal's throat. Compare their jaws to that of bears for instance. Along with having a digestive tract which can break down cellulose efficiently (including the presence of amylase in the saliva, which canines do not have), bears and other true omnivores have grinding teeth and jaws that facilitate lateral grinding movement.

    I'm certain your dog is fine on that diet, as has been mentioned there is no single set diet, all dogs are different thanks to our (sometimes wonderful, sometimes horrible) human intervention of selective breeding. But would a feral dog live a healthy life eating completely unprocessed, uncut, fresh, whole vegetables? Unlikely, or you would never see them starve to death. They would simply eat a diet similar to that of a wild herbivore if they got hungry and had no access to meat.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using Tapatalk 2
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 3, 2012

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