Raw vs. Kibble

[kady05]

Not sure if that's the best title in the world, but I figured it'd get the most attention

It was suggested that a thread get started here in the Debate section on this topic. Can we agree to keep this civil with no name calling and all that jazz? I'd prefer it not be locked because I'm curious about everyone's opinions on this

For me, it's not really a "this is better" debate, but I know others feel that dogs should be fed raw and that is that. I'm not one that is on the "all kibble is crap" train either.. I know some raw feeders are and personally, I think that mentality is what turns a lot of people away from raw feeding. It's raw or nothing is how some raw feeders feel.

I also know that some feel that since there is no "real" scientific evidence on the benefits of raw, they aren't comfortable feeding it. I suppose that's fine, but personally, I could care less about that. Talk to people who feed raw, go see their dogs and how good they do on the diet.. that's "scientific" enough for me! I'm sure there have been studies done by Science Diet (or other similar companies) that show that their foods are great for dogs.. when in reality, the majority of people know that's false (and I'm not referring to prescription diets, since I do know they have their place). Why else would so many pet food companies be leaning toward the "holistic" and grain free formulas? They're realizing that many people now actually care what goes into their dogs food, all about marketing and making money!

I recently switched Piper to raw, after dealing with stomach issues for basically her entire life. We're going on 3wks. now and she is doing amazing, better than she's ever done on ANY kibble (and she's been on numerous brands). Her coat has already improved (she's always had a more brittle coat, despite trying different supplements on her, not anymore!), her stools are great, etc., no negative side effects whatsoever. After seeing these results in less than 3wks., I am seriously considering switching everyone to raw.

That is not to say that raw is for everyone. Some people don't have the freezer space for it. It's also a diet that takes research and reading.. one of the reasons I didn't switch Piper til now was because I just hadn't done the research into it yet and wasn't comfortable with it.

So what does everyone think about raw feeding? Feel free to add any topics you want; I'm not the best at starting debate topics so I probably just rambled a lot LOL. Just wanted to get this started!

 

[Jim]

I think that it is the best way to feed a dog.
I have fed raw for over 10 years,didn't even know that it had a name back then.For me I feel that it is the best decision regarding my dogs health that I have ever made.

 

[cliffdog]

I don't think it's the "only" way to feed your dog, every dog is an individual. But I do think it is the "best" way to feed your dog. That is of course, JMO.
It is what dogs are biologically designed to eat; I don't know how you can argue that. I think dogs are carnivores, some give veggies as well as they believe dogs are omnivores, but regardless, everything— dogs, cats, llamas, emus, you, and me— was designed to eat REAL FOOD, not processed, and certainly not processed into little cereal bits. That is why I like raw so much. I am feeding fresh, whole foods and I have total control over what my dog is getting.

(Actually they are still half on kibble... but that won't last much longer!! )

 

[kady05]

It is what dogs are biologically designed to eat; I don't know how you can argue that. I think dogs are carnivores, some give veggies as well as they believe dogs are omnivores, but regardless, everything- dogs, cats, llamas, emus, you, and me- were designed to eat REAL FOOD, not processed, and certainly not processed into little cereal bits. That is why I like raw so much. I am feeding fresh, whole foods and I have total control over what my dog is getting.

Yup, I agree.

It's funny too.. Piper never did well on a chicken based kibble (except Orijen Adult, it has chicken in it, she did well on that for I think 5 months), yet she is doing great on chicken quarters. Funny how all of the processing screws everything up.

Oh yeah - for anyone interested in learning more about raw (specifically Prey Model Raw), this is a great website for it: Dedicated to proper carnivore nutrition - Prey Model Raw Feeding for Dogs & Cats The How to Get Started section is very helpful!

 

[Sabrina]

I don't really have an opinion on this yet as I have not fed raw before, though I plan to when I have the space.
Bransen has allergies to kibble with poultry in it, I wonder if he'd be okay with raw poultry.

 

[cliffdog]

I don't really have an opinion on this yet as I have not fed raw before, though I plan to when I have the space.
Bransen has allergies to kibble with poultry in it, I wonder if he'd be okay with raw poultry.

Probably. Cooked/processed chicken and raw/fresh chicken is a "whole different animal". Lots and lots of dogs with allergies to cooked or kibbled meats are fine with it raw.

 

[kady05]

I don't really have an opinion on this yet as I have not fed raw before, though I plan to when I have the space.
Bransen has allergies to kibble with poultry in it, I wonder if he'd be okay with raw poultry.

Well, like I said, Piper has never done well on a chicken based food, yet she is doing just fine on chicken quarters. I'm willing to bet he'd be fine on raw chicken.

 

[Sabrina]

That's great to know. Would make it so much more simple.

 

[crazybully]

When we first got Tobi I was going to start him immediately on raw, I wasn't absolutely sure i was convinced though. I wasn't sure about the bones, i wasn't sure about the cost. the cost became clear when for high end kibble it was nearing 100$ a month and then the damn dog hated the food, put 3 cups out, he'd eat 1/2 of a cup... he just didn't like it, and when he would eat he'd vomit every other meal, he had runny poo, it was a mess.

I bit the bullet, after about a year and a half of researching it Tobi was 6 months old and i hard switched him to bone in chicken.... he took to it immediately, no adverse affects, and... HE WANTED TO EAT! His first BM was about 3 days after we switched him and it was nice a firm... what a relief!

I didn't feel that i needed "science" to tell me what 7 million years of evolution could. Dogs are a direct descendant of the Gray wolf, and that is good enough for me.

It's surely not the only way to feed your dog, good kibbles work for some dogs, and they dig it, and it works well for the owners of them, but then you have pups like Piper and mine that have issues that will always be unresolved unless there is a large change. I personally believe that it is the BEST way to feed a dog/cat.

I think my biggest problem with Raw feeding is the vet community and finding a vet that isn't going to pitch a fit, or constantly try to talk you out of feeding raw, we've now been through 2-3 vets simply because we just couldn't agree to disagree.

 

[cliffdog]

I think my biggest problem with Raw feeding is the vet community and finding a vet that isn't going to pitch a fit, or constantly try to talk you out of feeding raw, we've now been through 2-3 vets simply because we just couldn't agree to disagree.

This can be DANGEROUS as well. Sometimes a vet will write something off as being an affect of being raw fed because they think raw feeding is dangerous, when in fact there's something really wrong with the dog that needs medical attention.

 

[crazybully]

This can be DANGEROUS as well. Sometimes a vet will write something off as being an affect of being raw fed because they think raw feeding is dangerous, when in fact there's something really wrong with the dog that needs medical attention.

I completely agree!!! We've gone through this with 2 of the vets with Tobi's yeast problem in his feet, they chalk it up to diet... when it was happening when he was on kibble as well!

 

[kady05]

I think my biggest problem with Raw feeding is the vet community and finding a vet that isn't going to pitch a fit, or constantly try to talk you out of feeding raw, we've now been through 2-3 vets simply because we just couldn't agree to disagree.

I haven't informed my vet yet.. Piper hasn't had to go in so no need to. I'm still not sure if I'll tell him or not.. he's a really cool guy, in the know about grain free foods (he even feeds his dogs TOTW, when he told me I about fell over) but I'm not sure how he feels about a raw diet. Meh, time will tell I suppose LOL.

 

[dogeatdog]

The way I look at raw v kibble is basically the same way I look at fresh peaches v canned both are good for you but fresh is better. Kibble was invented for storage reasons back before refrigerators I believe the idea come from sea biscuits cos dogs ate them too. I never asked myself why feed raw I just asked why feed kibble, and apart from convenience I couldn't come up with a good reason. A lot of working dogs (farm, hunting,etc) are feed raw probably because they can readily source the meat but these are also dogs that are put in extreme conditions that require optimum health, a good working dog is worth more to that owner than someones little foo foo so why would they compromise it's health if centuries of feeding raw was bad. At the vets: I bought Tank in for his vet visit recently this vet hadn't seen him for a year and the very first thing he said was "what are you feeding him" we had talked about feeding raw at the last visit, the only thing he said about it was if I had very young children to be very careful about his poop, and gave me a sheet on a BARF diet, anyway he was very impressed by dogs appearance. Tank I don't think has food allergies but some grasses are nasty now I'm not going to say that feeding raw has cured him from this but by giving him the best skin I can seems to have made these issues minimum and easy to control. So far I have no reason to change to kibble

 

[Team Peanut]

if i had my choice (as mentioned in other threads i simply do not have space for now) i would definately go full raw. Peanut LOVES it and has done really well so far with it. Due to my space issue and haven't had a decent place to find chicken so i watch the ads for now I do a funny mix of orijen adult, primal chicken patties and what meat i can find on sale (recently Peanut has been getting lamb shoulder due to the price was great-btw i think it was just him getting used to something new his gas has gone away still eating lamb). for now this is working with him he is still getting raw but the kibble he gets is pretty good too but i try to make that a supplement rather then the staple of his diet. i really like the raw and would prefer to feed him raw all the time so once i have the space to store it and i find a good place to get meats that are not expensive i am all for it. it seems so much more natural to him even the way he eats it he looks like he has been doing it his whole life.
now i have to say he has been on Orijen adult for quite some time and he has not had any negative issues on that food and as far as kibble goes i really like it and feel comfortable with the brand.
i just would like to do a more natural diet for Peanut and i do enjoy preparing his food myself rather then just scooping up some kibble and dropping it in a bowl for him.

 

[SideKick]

like so many other said dogs have always eaten raw. Gambit was on (and is still fed) TOTW and other then the ocassional runny poop was fine. Raw just made sense so after a couple years of reading up on it I took the plunge. After bout a month i noticed his coat became more brillant in color and super soft. He also has a diff vibe to him; an extra pep in his step. He only gets fed his kibble once a week; ocassionally twice. I try to keep it at a minimum but freezer space and money dictates we keep kibble for the occasional meal.

 

[Team Peanut]

like so many other said dogs have always eaten raw. Gambit was on (and is still fed) TOTW and other then the ocassional runny poop was fine. Raw just made sense so after a couple years of reading up on it I took the plunge. After bout a month i noticed his coat became more brillant in color and super soft. He also has a diff vibe to him; an extra pep in his step. He only gets fed his kibble once a week; ocassionally twice. I try to keep it at a minimum but freezer space and money dictates we keep kibble for the occasional meal.

i feel better that i am not the only one still having to do kibble for similar reasons

 

[crazybully]

Freezer space is rough on us as well, we've not found a freezer that we're not cheap enough to buy :lol:

have you guys checked craigslist and stuff? sometimes i see a 5cf freezer on there for like 50 bucks.

 

[bearxfoo]

I try to think about it as logically as I can.

What do wild animal eat? Other animals, which are raw. What do wild horses eat? Grass. What will a feral cat eat? Mice, small rodents.

The problem with domesticated animals is that they've learned to depend on humans (with maybe the exception of cats). Dogs are scavengers and we all probably know from experience that a dog will eat anything, regardless if it's good for them or if they can digest it. So a wild/feral dog may not be the greatest hunter, depending on so many factors, so they'd end up going through garbage and eating whatever they could find.

But I like to look more at actual wild canines; not any domesticated ones. Wolves, foxes, coyotes, etc etc. They all hunt, eat their prey raw, and consume most of it, organs and bones and all.

Therefor, in my opinion, attempting to keep things "as natural" as possible, I can see, understand and agree how raw may be very beneficial.

I pamper my dog. I love him and I spoil him rotten. I would love to feed him high quality meats, organs and veggies he can digest well. The problem is that I just don't have any storage for the meat/organs, so sadly I can't. I'm also uncomfortable with my knowledge of what to feed, how much of it to eat, etc. Then there's also an issue that my mother/grandmother would probably freak out at my dog eating organs and bones and raw meat.

I also can agree that nothing is "one size fits all". I believe that you should do whatever you feel is right and you're comfortable with. I feed Dylan the best kibble I can afford at the time until I get the chance to feed raw. And if a person isn't convinced that raw is good, well, then they aren't. You can't convince a person to like a color or food they don't like and I don't see this as much different. You can give them information but in the end, they're going to do what feels right for them and I think that's way more important. After all, we all campaign for the whole "its your dog, your right" kind of thing, so this falls into that category.

tl;dr raw is good, kibble can be fine, do what you think is right!

 

[rguerra]

I prefer to feed raw. My dog loves it and I can see a difference in his coat, stool, energy level, etc.
However, it does require much more dedication and large freezer space. So I feed raw 2x to 3x a week and kibble the rest.

 

[Schwe]

Kibble was invented for storage reasons back before refrigerators I believe the idea come from sea biscuits cos dogs ate them too.

I'm pretty sure that commercial dog food and refrigerators/freezers came onto the market at around the same time, and feeding dogs commercial dog food only became commonplace in the latter half of the 20th century. So, that comment isn't very accurate.

Kibble is simply convenient.

Anywhozer,

I like the PMR diet because my dogs do very well on it. The coat is much healthier, BM's are smaller and less messy, and their energy levels are higher (not like THAT was ever an issue :lol. I'm a big nerd and just a wee bit OCD, and I research everything ad nauseum. Prey-model raw made the most sense to me. As soon as I can afford/accommodate a raw diet I switched from kibble. Before then, I fed high quality kibble.