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Pure Bred APBT's

Discussion in 'Breeder Discussion' started by JoeBingo, Jun 27, 2008.

  1. JoeBingo

    JoeBingo Banned

    With all the discussion in various threads about pure APBT's and such, a question came to mind.

    What commonly known breeders or kennels that you are aware of today, only breed 100% PURE APBT dogs. They may or may not be on the internet.


    you heard of someone who does, but can't recall the name right now ;)

  2. BlueRose_Kennel

    BlueRose_Kennel Little Dog

    Nice try JB but I'm afraid the definition of "pure bred APBT" is going to vary widely! I'm curoius what you consider to be a "pure bred APBT" ?

    Lots of people will consider a dual registered APBT/AST a pure APBT especialy if the dogs have been dual registered for say 8 or more generations.

    Personaly I think that the 'PR' designation is a good indicator. A purple ribbon bred APBT has at least 7 generations of ancestors documented with the UKC. Now if you've got 'PR' dogs in the 7th generation of a 'PR' bred dog, that's and even better indication (JMHO- but you know I'm a slave to the registry!)
  3. CoolHandJean

    CoolHandJean Krypto Super Dog

    I'd say that Tom Garner and Wildside Kennels both have true bred APBTs. Two that I can think of right off the top of my head, at least.

    I am going to have to disagree with you there, BRK. I am sure that many of them are truly APBT. However, I have seen many American Bullies with the PR label.
  4. BlueRose_Kennel

    BlueRose_Kennel Little Dog

    The Am Bully had been around almost 20 years now which is surely long enough to have plenty of 'PR' bred bullies out there. The way the dog LOOKS (or it's conformation) would also be a fairly good indicator of it's "purebrededness"
  5. CoolHandJean

    CoolHandJean Krypto Super Dog

    But you didn't say anything about looks, you just said that PR is a good indicator that it is a fullbred.
    So, if American Bullies has 7+ years of being documented with the UKC as an APBT, does that make it a fullbred APBT?
  6. screamin'eagle

    screamin'eagle Good Dog

    PR doesn't tell you crap, and the "title" is given by the UKC when all 14 ancestors in a 3 gen ped are documented by the UKC.

    If PR is a good indication of a pure American Pit Bull Terrier someone whould've told the UKC about these guys...

    etc., etc.

    In fact, Purple ribbon is the biggest puppy peddling "title" hyped up by bully breeders and the unknowledgeable. Period.

    Again...PR is worthless as a measure of anything "pure." I think a good study of history and leaving "opinion" at the door is the measure. It doesn't matter what anyone's opinion is...the American Pit Bull Terrier is nostalgic because of what he truly is...a regisrty can not provide you that. A registry is a business so if we're putting all of our stock into what registeries are saying we are 1) wrong and 2) ending up with the crap I posted above. Registeries can not (will not) control paper hanging, and lying ass owners. If we depend on their definition of pure...sorry for us, right?
  7. BlueRose_Kennel

    BlueRose_Kennel Little Dog

    I just looked at UKC's website and apparently it has changed since I registered Hachi?!?! I am going to email them to find out WTF happened there...
  8. JoeBingo

    JoeBingo Banned

    BRK, you live and breathe in the world of registries. That is your forte (a strong point). I greatly respect what you have accomplished in that world. I appreciate the hard work you have done to make Hachi the tremendous, talented and beautiful dog that she is.

    Having said that, I must admit that I do not place value or faith in the registries to uphold the purity of a breed, when I plainly see so many dogs that look so totally different, being called the same thing. It just does not compute in my book.

    You asked what I thought was a 100% Pure bred APBT. The best way I know to explain it is like this. The AST, SBT and Bullies were bred down from the 100% pure APBT. They have been around so long now, that they are a vastly different breed. Now .... if an AST, SBT or Bully is bred back to a pure APBT, then the outcome could only be a mutt or lets say, mixed breed.

    So, in light of that explanation, I am looking for input as to who still breeds 100% Pure Bred APBT dogs. Dogs that have no AST, SBT or Bully blood.
  9. bahamutt99

    bahamutt99 Stealth ninja

    So by definition, if a breeder has some dogs with POS (pit-or-staff) blood, would they not be considered a breeder of purebreds? If so, I guess I'd better scrap any future breeding plans I have right now. LOL
  10. JoeBingo

    JoeBingo Banned

    I make not definitions. I only have an opinion. A very uneducated opinion.

    You said pit OR staff. Pit is not a breed, nor is staff as far as I know. If you are talking about mixing AST, SBT, Bully and APBT, my answer would be that the outcome would not be pure anything. How could they? Are you talking about mixing two different breeds and ending up with something that is pure one or the other. How could that happen?
  11. tat2stuff

    tat2stuff Good Dog

    Colby's dogs are still "pure"
  12. Big_Ant

    Big_Ant Little Dog

    Personally, I rarely like to bring other kennels into the mix when someone tries to bring up who is respectable and who is not. Generally, the respected and "do right" breeders are very low-key, and usually try and avoid the lime light.

    JMO, but it's generally poor taste to point out the good breeders, it only serves to flood their "inbox" with requests to join the next breeding list from every jim, jack, and joe (no pun intended Bingo) who THINKS that they know and are ready and deserving of owning a dog so beautiful.

    There are a few here, they know who they are, and they know what I'm talking about.
  13. JoeBingo

    JoeBingo Banned

    I very much respect that insight BA. It "rings" as being spot on. Thank you.

    All I asked for were some breeders of a particular breed of dog. It was not a question of respectable or not. Just a question of 100% pure bred dog. If I had asked on any other breed forum, whether it be Beagle or whatever, more than likely there would already be a sticky on that forum of prefered breeders or someone would readily suggest a few. With APBTs, it is different and mystical. It is just the nature of the breed, the times we live in and sadly, the position that people are forced to adopt to remain involved and not become a target.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 27, 2008
  14. Boogieman

    Boogieman Guest

    Thanks for saving me the trouble! I get so tired of listening to that PR crap.
  15. bahamutt99

    bahamutt99 Stealth ninja

    Pit-or-staff. You don't know what that is? An APBT with dual-registered UKC/AKC dogs in its pedigree.
  16. JoeBingo

    JoeBingo Banned

    No, I did not know, honestly.

    Why call it APBT if it is also AMSTAFF? How can it be a purebreed of either one. It has been 70 years of AMSTAFF breeding to create the breed it is today. AKC is a closed registry. So, that registered dogs blood has been AMSTAFF for a very long time now. The AMSTAFF is a totally different breed than a pure APBT isn't it? While some AMSTAFF fit the physical standard of APBT, aren't there other characteristics to consider?

    For instance, differences include temperament and drives. Would the following be a good, broad general statement to make concerning the two breeds? While there are some AST that still have a drive to work, most of it has been lost as with other AKC breeds, there are but a few who wish to preserve this in their lines. APBTs tend to have a higher prey drive and be dog aggressive, while AST can have some prey drive and a few might be dog aggressive much of it has been bred out. Consider, that most ASTs have been bred for appearance for about 70yrs with little regard to working ability and APBTs were bred to work/fight you are going to have different temperament/drive levels.

    You have wonderful dogs bahamutt99. I am not knocking them or the successes you have had with them and will continue to have. But I just can not understand how a mixed breed dog can be called pure bred anything. The ONLY way I could justify that, is if everyone told me there is absolutely no difference between an APBT and an AMSTAFF and that they are referred to by name difference only to satisfy the whims of the AKC.

    Please work with me and help me understand this. I am here to learn.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 27, 2008
  17. fearlessknight

    fearlessknight Good Dog

    Well, nice try, but I am sure somehow we all knew "you" and a couple of others would disagree and have the only misconstrued definition in the thread.
    I would like to know why it is you think that PR means something? Or why it is you think a whole whopping 7 generations is like a miracle....A slave is right....you work for it for nothing, because you are learning nothing, and are just sucked in by the "hype" of Purple Ribbon..... What a shame! :no2: The sad thing is....it is not any of our "opinions" that we are trying ever so hard to get through to you, they are FACTS, that you REFUSE to accept. There is nothing wrong with being wrong, God only knows I have been wrong many times. You live and learn, and if that is embarrassing, then...well, I guess it's a personal thing.

    I must second that! It is getting old. :rolleyes:
  18. Madeleinemom

    Madeleinemom MS Bites, My Dog Didn't Staff Member Super Moderator

    My virtue of having an APBT puppy quite literally placed into my lap that fateful afternoon in 2001, I have to admit that I am somewhat of a novice still in the world of the APBT. I have read as much as I can since.

    FWIW, my vote would go for Colby dogs, when it comes to purity.
  19. bahamutt99

    bahamutt99 Stealth ninja

    Learn something new everyday. :D

    That's the great debate. It can't be an AmStaff, since you can't take a UKC dog and make it AKC. But since AmStaffs are from APBTs, and you can take an AmStaff and get UKC papers on it as an APBT, the two are destined to intermingle. I'm not saying I agree with it, but it is what it is. I'm not going to call my dogs anything different because of that AmStaff shot in the ass. LOL

    Its worth noting that the AKC re-opened the registry to UKC dogs in the 60s or the 70s. (Can't remember which.) As far as them being completely different breeds nowadays, again, that's the great debate. I would say it all depends on the breeder.
  20. Michele

    Michele Chi Super Dog Staff Member Administrator


    BigAnt: great post

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