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Discussion in 'Breeder Discussion' started by Stillalover1, Sep 8, 2007.

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  1. Stillalover1

    Stillalover1 Puppy

    Hey guys, im just wanting to ask a question. Chyna(my female) is in heat and im intending on breeding her with another rednose im just wondering if after she is pergnant if i should put her on a special diet or keep her inside more often. she is a really lean build dog is why i am wondering she has alot of muscles but when it comes to her stomach usually you can see her ribs. shes always been like that since she was a puppy she eats more then i do but she runs so much that it just falls right off her. so if i keep her outside like usual all day she does nothing but run but if i put her inside then she will be alot calmer and sleep more? im not sure just if you have any input let me know thank you! chynas dad.
  2. Suki

    Suki Little Dog

    tell us more about Chyna and why you are intent on breeding her, please...
  3. Madeleinemom

    Madeleinemom MS Bites, My Dog Didn't Staff Member

    Ditto here, please tell us why you intend to breed her?
  4. Stillalover1

    Stillalover1 Puppy

    i have intended on breeding her for the last year. my friend Nick has a beautifual american named duke that his a friend of nicks is in love with and has always wanted a puppy from one dukes litters, when Nick met me i introduced him to chyna and he fell in love and convinced me to let her mate with duke for at least one litter so that he can get a female beacuse he has always wanted one. i also would like a male out of it. then i plan to sell the rest to responsable homes! also more about chyna, she is 2years and 9 months old. she is on her 5th heat, she is 57lbs of solid muscle. she is very lean you can always see ribs but not in a bad or grose way you can just always see them and you can only really notice them toward her mid section not toward her front legs. i will post some better pictures of her right after i post this, i took them today at the beach.. if you need to know anythign elts just let me know
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 9, 2007
  5. Stillalover1

    Stillalover1 Puppy

    sorry i also just realized in the first post i said i was breeding her with another rednose i didnt mean to put that part. and i dont know how to fix it so im just saying it now!:)
  6. 65lbdixie

    65lbdixie Puppy


    Code of Ethics For Breeders of American Pit Bull Terriers/American Staffordshire Terriers

    Section I: Introduction & Mission Statement

    Introduction: This Code of Ethics is being presented by the Pit Bull Owners Alliance (PBOA). The material presented herein is to serve as a guide for breeders and reference tool for potential buyers seeking out breeders. The goal in presenting this Code of Ethics is not to promote Pit Bull breeding, but rather to discourage indiscriminate breeding, poor breeding practices, and support of unethical breeders. PBOA supports and encourages rescue above and beyond breeding or purchasing Pit Bulls.

    Mission Statement: The ethical breeder of American Pit Bull Terriers and/or American Staffordshire Terriers ("Pit Bulls") shall always hold paramount the future of the breed. A desire for betterment and preservation of the Pit Bull breed should be the sole driving force behind a breeder's choice to produce puppies.

    1) The breed's future: because of a) anti-Pit Bull legislation, b) irresponsible ownership, c) criminal animal abuse, and d) a surplus of dogs, the future of the Pit Bull is in jeopardy. Prior to planning a litter, a breeder should ask himself/herself if the litter will jeopardize the future of the breed by contributing in any way to a, b, c, and/or d above.

    2) Betterment of the breed: the goal of the ethical Pit Bull breeder should always be, first and foremost, to better the breed through the production of puppies that are as good as or superior to the previous generation. Production of Pit Bulls that ideally represent the United Kennel Club (UKC), American Dog Breeders Association (ADBA), and/or American Kennel Club (AKC) Standard(s) should be considered the pinnacle of a Pit Bull breeding program.

    3) Preservation of the breed: ethical breeders should work to preserve, through legal and humane means, the Pit Bull breed as it was, is and should be. Means to achieve this goal include: protecting the integrity of the breed through adherence to the Standards; careful culling (via sterilization, and/or humane euthanasia when necessary) of sub-standard stock; meticulous record-keeping, DNA profiling, microchipping, and pedigree research; studying to achieve a scholarly knowledge of breed history, temperament, health, structure, and genetics.

    Section II: Actions of the Ethical Pit Bull Breeder

    Note 1: For simplicity’s sake, "dog" will apply to both sexes. “Breeding stock†will apply to any dog or dogs that the Ethical Pit Bull breeder will breed, allow to be bred, or pay for the breeding services of.

    Note 2: The pedigrees (previous generations) of all breeding stock should be considered as important as the breeding stock itself.

    Note 3: Proper care, management and training are beyond the scope of this document. However an Ethical Pit Bull Breeder keeps their dogs well trained, in good health, in clean quarters, provides daily exercise and mental stimulation, and does not keep more dogs than can adequately be provided for.

    The Ethical Pit Bull Breeder chooses breeding stock based on several criteria:

    a) correctness of temperament (see #2 and Item 2)
    b) health and vitality of the individual dogs (see #3, Item 3, and Note 3)
    c) conformity to the applicable breed standard of the recognized Pit Bull registry (see # 5)
    d) qualities the individual dogs may offer to future generations
    e) qualities the pedigrees of the individual dogs may offer to future generations

    The Ethical Pit Bull Breeder holds “A†and “B†above paramount above all other considerations when choosing breeding stock.

    The Ethical Pit Bull Breeder:

    1) has an extensive knowledge of Pit Bulls (their history, genetics, the Standards, care, training), as well as a strong understanding of breeding practices, canine health, and dog behavior/training

    2) chooses breeding stock that is temperamentally sound and representative of the Standards. In addition, the Ethical Pit Bull Breeder does not breed any Pit Bull that is human-aggressive, fearful, exhibits behavior typically seen in breeds of the protection/guardian group, nor any Pit Bull that is not “temperament correct†(see item 3 below).

    Item 2: The temperament correct Pit Bull: seeks out human interaction; is responsive, biddable and eager to please; may be genetically predisposed to aggression towards other dogs or animals; is appropriately submissive; is well balanced and optimistic; enjoys handling; presents good eye contact; is able to be calm in the presence of other dogs on leash or - if initially leash reactive - can learn how to tolerate their presence; is willing to connect with handler during high arousal; can be handled safely even in times of high arousal; accepts a reasonable amount of confinement; drops arousal levels quickly when removed from a stressful situation; is social with people of all types; is responsive and good natured; is never aggressive towards humans.

    3) health tests all breeding stock prior to breeding, and certifies health of breeding stock prior to breeding where such certifications are available. Tests and certifications shall be conducted and processed prior to any dog being bred. Required health tests and certifications include: hips, elbows, thyroid, and heart (evaluated and certified by organizations such as Orthopedic Foundation for Animals [OFA] for hips, elbows, thyroid, and heart, or PennHip for hips). Dogs should test negative for Brucellosis and von Willebrand's Disease. Additional testing may be conducted for the following health abnormalties: Spinocerebellar/Hereditary Ataxia (specifically on American Staffordshire Terriers), and Progressive Retinal Atrophy (PRA) with subsequent registration with Canine Eye Registry Foundation (CERF) encouraged for dogs free of PRA. Results and certifications of any and all tests will be made readily available to potential buyers if tested and certified dogs will be bred. In addition, immediately prior to each breeding, all breeding stock should pass a basic veterinary health examination and be determined to be in good health.

    Item 3: No dog with unsatisfactory health tests and/or certification results shall ever be bred. Unsatisfactory results would be (among others):

    a) OFA hip ratings below fair
    b) OFA elbow ratings that indicated elbow dysplasia
    c) PennHip ratings that show abnormal joint laxity
    d) thyroids that do not test normal; thyroids that test TgAA positive
    e) hearts that are not found to be clear of murmurs or other abnormalities upon examination with a Doppler (ultrasound) exam by a Board Certified Cardiologist
    f) positive tests for Spincerebellar/Hereditary Ataxia
    g) positive tests for PRA
    h) positive tests for any other hereditary/congenital/genetic disease

    Note 3) No dog that has ever been diagnosed with a hereditary/congenital skin disease (including demodectic mange) shall ever be bred. A dog with chronic health problems (such as skin allergies) and/or weaknesses, and/or immune weakness shall never be bred. A dog that has torn anterior cruxiate cigaments (ACL) shall never be bred unless the torn ligaments were damaged because of conceivable stress and/or injury which indicate normal environmental causes and not hereditary/congenital/genetic weakness.

    5) chooses breeding stock that conforms to the Standard(s) of the applicable recognized Pit Bull registry.

    6) registers breeding stock and produced litters with a recognized Pit Bull registry.
    Item 1: For the sake of this Code of Ethics, recognized Pit Bull registries will be considered the United Kennel Club and the American Dog Breeders Association (for American Pit Bull Terriers and American Staffordshire Terriers being registered as American Pit Bull Terriers), and the American Kennel Club (for American Staffordshire Terriers). These organizations are the oldest and hold breed standards that are most sought after and followed.

    7) only breeds mature (over 2 years of age) dogs. Does not breed elderly bitches, nor does the Ethical Pit Bull breeder breed any one bitch more than once every 24 months.

    [​IMG] seeks validation of quality of breeding stock through competition in organized dog sports and subsequent achievement of titles and certifications such as:

    a) UKC, ADBA, and AKC conformation, obedience, agility, and performance titles
    b) certifications such as the AKC’s Canine Good Citizen (CGC), American Temperament
    Test Society’s Temperament Tested (TT), Therapy Dogs International’s Therapy Dog International (TDI), and other similar, valid certifications.
    c) events, titles, and certifications offered by other valid organizations.

    9) breeds less than 3 litters every year. Should ideally breed no more than 1 litter a year.

    10) breeds when there is a specific demand for the puppies, and owners for puppies have been predetermined before birth.

    Section III: Puppies, Placement, and Care

    Note 5: Section III also applies to adolescent dogs and/or adult dogs any breeder may have in their care and potentially place.

    1) chooses homes based on ability to properly care for and handle a Pit Bull, and acts as match maker between puppy/dog and potential owner to ensure compatibility.

    Item 4: The quality of the home any puppy or dog is placed into should be of great importance. The Ethical Pit Bull Breeder only considers a potential owner that:

    a) has already done good breed research. Asks good questions. Shows willingness to learn more
    b) is realistic about breed challenges (dog-aggression, high energy levels, strong and pushy, breed specific legislation, rental and home owners insurance issues, bad reputation of breed, etc.)
    c) shows a stable, mature, open-minded personality
    d) is happy to be interviewed and receive a home inspection
    e) is physically capable of handling a strong dog
    f) wants an indoor pet as a companion animal/family member
    g) has had some dog experience and knowledge of basic training.
    h) has a reasonably active lifestyle and is prepared to satisfy dog's daily exercise needs
    i) owns a home or has a secure rental that will allow a Pit Bull (should provide proof in lease)
    j) can provide safe containment: tall, secure fences if yard is present and working latches on gates.
    k) lives in a household (includes roommates, children, seniors) that is involved in the decision to bring a Pit Bull into the family and is able to help manage a dog
    l) has other pets in the home that are a good match and understands that Pit Bull must be separated from other pets when not supervised

    12) socializes and conducts basic training with all puppies before sending them to their new homes.

    13) microchips all puppies prior to sending them to their new homes.

    14) does not place puppies under 8 weeks of age.

    15) does not place puppies in areas where breed specific legislation that would endanger the puppy’s life or quality of life exists.

    16) provides legally-binding, non-expiring contracts upon purchase that protect buyer as well as puppy. Contract certifies health (congenital, genetic, hereditary) and temperamental soundness of puppy. Assures puppy is disease-free prior to placement through records detailing proper veterinary and health care. Contract includes clause that requires new owner to relocate with the dog, or return the dog to the Ethical Pit Bull Breeder in the event that breed specific legislation that would endanger the puppy’s life or quality of life is enacted in the new owner’s city/state.

    17) takes responsibility for any puppy produced, during any point in the lifetime of that puppy, should the original home become unable to care for the puppy or grown adult dog.

    1[​IMG] sends puppies home with papers from the recognized Pit Bull registry to allow the new owner to register the puppy in his/her name; unless the puppy is pet stock and is not spayed or neutered prior to going to new home, in which case, the Ethical Pit Bull Breeder will withhold papers until the new owner can provide proof of spay/neuter. It is strongly advised, however, that the Ethical Pit Bull Breeder spays/neuters all pet stock prior to placement in new homes.

    Item 5: “Pet stock†is any puppy that is not or would not potentially be bred by an Ethical Pit Bull Breeder, and/or any puppy that will not potentially be shown in conformation events.

    19) after sending puppy home, offers support indefinitely to new owner by way of breed counseling, training/behavior advice, health care information, referrals, etc.

    20) recognizes that breeding is not a money making venture, a business, nor a means to bring in extra money. Stud fees and sale prices of puppies should reflect the costs of ethical breeding. The ethical breeder does not see a profit at the end of the year, but may actually see a loss.

    (C) 2005 Mary Harwelik & Pit Bull Owners Alliance:lol::lol::lol:
  7. 65lbdixie

    65lbdixie Puppy

    If you are not breeding to better/preserve the breed, you have no business breeding, period.....quote from michele in my thread... i wouldnt ask about breeding for looks.. or just a plain good dog... the will "dog" you
  8. bahamutt99

    bahamutt99 Stealth ninja

    65lbdixie, it is really good to know that you heard what we were saying. Truly. Casual breeding is not doing the breed any favors these days. Talking about weight, or what a good pet the dog is, or how a buddy (or even a dozen buddies) want one; those aren't good reasons to breed.
  9. Stillalover1

    Stillalover1 Puppy

    :mad: im going to breed the dog either way, i dont understand why people are being so negative about this topic. i asked for a little advice about health isuses that could come up during the process that i am trying to avoid and you are turning it into a debate. i have yet to recieve 1 thing that actually pretains to my initial topic. the dogs are both VERY well temperd and are fully registerd with many generations in blood lines. they are also 2 1/2 and 3 years old and in great health. now does someone have anything to say to actually help me or would you like to get all high and mighty about why i souldnt breed some more... just incase you didnt understand my initial question was should i change my dogs diet when she is pregnant to help the puppies and chyna stay healthy? just to let you know i feed her pedegree adult dog food and i also give her wet food every night... thanks for you help guys! also thank you for the thread you posed about breeding it was very informational but also off topic, thank you all again
  10. Michele

    Michele Chi Super Dog Administrator

    I think everyone understood your initial post perfectly. No one is getting high and mighty.

    If you are not breeding to better/preserve the breed, you have no business breeding, period. The breed is in terrible trouble. You will be contributing to it.

    Give me a reason why you want to breed.
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 9, 2007
  11. bahamutt99

    bahamutt99 Stealth ninja

    If you are prepared to go ahead and procreate the breed, you should already know the answers to the relatively simple questions like what to feed the dam and where to keep her. That's just the very tip of the iceberg. The simple truth is that people that have dedicated their lives to the breed and its improvement are the only ones who should be breeding. If you are looking to breed a backyard litter, you cannot be upset that folks who care about the breed are not going to be in a hurry to help you get there.
  12. Stillalover1

    Stillalover1 Puppy

    i have stated my reason as small as it is i still beleave that it is not hurting the breed any. i would like an offsping of chyna and so would a friend of mine. i am in no way downgrading the breed and im am also in no way doing anything differant then profesionl breeders. i have 2 very well behaved and beautifual dogs that would make georgious and sweet puppies. now tell me how i am wrong in doing this? now please back to the question.
  13. Stillalover1

    Stillalover1 Puppy

    Also i would like to add that i know the breed is in trouble and i know people are stupid. i cant even go for a walk with my dog without people staring at me or giving me dirty looks or grabing there kid and waking away. i am not trying to or intending to harm the breed in any way. the puppies will all go to good homes and even if she has 11 puppes i have them all going to very good home. i intend to make all of the puppies paperd and taken care of.
  14. bahamutt99

    bahamutt99 Stealth ninja

    You want two puppies, and are prepared to breed a whole litter to get them. By your words, you don't have more than 2 homes lined up for them. Ready availability is one of the things that hurts the breed the most. The fact that someone can go get a Pit Bull for $100 or $200 out of the paper, bred by tons of well-intentioned people just like you, that hurts the breed! Responsible people who want to open their homes to an APBT are going to either seek out a reputable breeder or rescue a dog. They are not going to go with someone who bred a litter just because. Believe me, we bred our sweet-tempered pet when I was a teenager, and to my knowledge, only one of those dogs survived to the age of 4. (They were all placed in homes that represented themselves as caring, responsible, etc.)

    Give me 5 minutes on YouTube and I can find you probably a dozen videos of Pit Bull breedings. There is no shortage of the breed. That we are in such a glut right now with Pit Bulls being slaughtered on a massive scale in shelters is just one reason why casual breeding is not the most morally and ethically sound option right now.

    Do you have 11 pre-screened homes already lined up with cash deposits? If not, how can you guarantee anything?
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 9, 2007
  15. Stillalover1

    Stillalover1 Puppy

    ok well thank you for that information, not being sacatic either. i have over 11 very well known friends of the family and family members who would like to have a puppy out of the litter. and no i do not have cash deposits due to the fact of who wants them. yes the initial reason we wanted to breed was beacuse both of us would like a puppy. now i know you are all worried that i am hurting this breed and i dont think im the one you need to worry about. now i guess you could call this a back yard litter but its a litter that will all go to careing good homes most with childern and all loving familys. i asked a simple question yes but all i was looking for was an opinion on foods i was trying to get someone who knows and has bread a few times who uses a certain brand or maby like a certain mix. is that really to hard to ask. i guess ill just go talk to a vet. gosh guys you coulda just helped im done reposing goodbye
  16. Suki

    Suki Little Dog

    you, and "breeders" :rolleyes: like you are EXACTLY the types i/we worry about!

    VERY upsetting post, :mad: and honestly, totally irresponsible on your behalf. TOTALLY!!!!!
    IF you TRULY cared even a fraction about this breed, you would spay your dog. Instead, you are just another example of the typical Back Yard Breeder~just another "Joe" who cares nothing about this breed, but more about their self serving needs....
    Cripes, no wonder this breed is in trouble~too many think like you do.....
  17. Suki

    Suki Little Dog

    Backyard Breeder
    Reputable Breeder

    1. Motive for breeding: "fun", "good for kids", "to make money". Does not screen buyers and seldom refuses to sell, even if buyer is unsuitable.1. Dedication to producing quality dogs is serious avocation. Has so much invested in dogs that he struggles to break even, not make a profit. Will sell pups only to approved buyers.2. Breeds the family pet to any convenient pet of the same breed just to have purebred pups. Has no understanding or concern with genetics, pedigree bloodlines, or breed improvement.2. Can explain how planned breedings are used to emphasize or minimize specific qualities through linebreeding, outcrossing, or more rarely, inbreeding.3. Though the pets (sire/dam of pups) may be well loved, they were not tested for hip dysplasia or for other genetic problems such as cardiomyopathy and hypothyroidism.3. Does not breed dogs younger than age 2. Has breeding stock x-rayed to check for hip dysplasia, echo/doppler run for SAS, holtered within the last year for boxer cardiomyopathy (also known as ARVC) and thyroid screened. Can produce certification to prove claims.4. Offers no health guarantee beyond proof of shots, if that. Unqualified to give help if problems develop.4. Written contractural commitment to replace a dog with genetic faults or to help owner deal with problem.5. Seller has little knowledge of breed history, the national breed club or of the AKC breed standard. May claim this does not matter for "just pets".5. Loves the breed and can talk at length about its background, uses, and ideal type.6. Pups raised in makeshift accommodations, sometimes unsanitary, indicating lack of long-term investment in breeding and lack of true care for the puppies well-being.6. Has an investment in dog equipment and the puppies environment is sanitary and loving.7. Even when selling "just pets", may produce AKC papers or "championship pedigrees" as proof of quality. Yet seller does not increase his own knowledge through participation in national, regional, or local breed clubs. Is not involved in showing their dogs to "prove" quality.7. Belongs to national, regional, and/or local dog clubs, indicating a love for the sport of purebred dogs. Shows their dogs as an objective test of how his stock measures up.8. May be unwilling to show a buyer the entire litter or to introduce the dam of the litter. Cannot or will not compare/critique pups or pup’s ancestors.8. Shows litter and dam in a sanitary environment. Helps buyer evaluate and choose a pup. Explains criteria for "show prospects" versus "pet picks".9. Prices are at the low end of local range, since must move pups quickly. Advertises in the local newspaper classifieds.9. Prices will be at the high end of local range. Price will not reflect all that is invested in the pups. A reputable breeder never profits from the sale of puppies. Does not advertise in the newspaper. Has an established waiting list for the pups.10. No concern for the future of individual pups or the breed as a whole. Does not use AKC’s limited registration option or ask for spay/neuter contract to guard against the breeding of sub-standard pups. If you cannot keep pup, tells you to take it to a dog pound or to sell it.10. After purchase, will help you with grooming or training problems. Will take back a pup you cannot keep rather than see it disposed of inappropriately. Sells pets with spay/neuter agreement and on AKC limited registration.

    Most of the general public thinks that just because they have *papers* on their dog, that means their dog is breed material. All papers mean is that the dog(s) parents were registered, and NOTHING, yes i said nothing, more. It does NOT mean QUALITY! It does NOT mean the dog is CORRECT for the Standards for that breed. Most of the dogs that are registered are NOT breed material, but make fine pets, NOT suitable parents.
    IMO, people who TRULY care will find EVERY possible reason to contribute a litter based on"raising the bar", not, just to have a litter, cuz the parents are "good looking".
    Visit shelter X, Y and Z across America~those people thought their dog was ":good looking" too....:no2:.....
  18. Suki

    Suki Little Dog

  19. OP, you are in FL, correct? There is already BSL in FL, maybe not your town, but that is another reason why there are less good homes than adoptable dogs, right in your area. If so many people want a puppy, why don't they adopt one from a rescue?
    Also, I'm not sure, but wouldn't responsible breeders have a spay/neuter contract for pet dogs, unless they were going to be showing? OP did not say they were showing either?
  20. Boogieman

    Boogieman Guest

    well when you said "i don't understand" that pretty much sums it all up. you shouldn't breed because you don't a clue of what you are doing. here asking simple basic questions such as what to feed a bitch during the pregnancy shows your complete lack of basic knowledge. you don't have a clue of the things that could go wrong during what you now believe to be such a "simple" process of squirting out a litter. everybody thinks just let the 2 dogs screw and wham i'll get puppies. any breeder, and no i'm not talking about people such as yourself, could tell you that all the tire kickers that "say" they want a pup now will more than likely be the same ones who come up with an excuse to say no once the time really comes. so you have 11 pups....assuming that everything goes ok that is. what if 8 people back out. oh yeah.....they are your friends they won't do that. if you don't even know what to feed a bitch how the hell are you going to take care of a litter? oh yeah....the mom does that. nobody is going to change you mind obviously, but your complaining because knowledgeable people who have worked their whole lives toward the betterment of the breed isn't going to fly either. you are a destructive force in to the APBT and until you realize that you are part of the problem....not the solution. breed your mutts.....too bad you will never know how many actually end up in the shelter with a needle in them while some worker has to deal with putting down dogs all day long!.......oh and let's not forget......:mad:
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