Worg
Big Dog
I had asked a question (Reddit) on how to get my dog to drink water in public after she has exercised (she only likes drinking water at home) and it led to an email conversation with someone who said he was a vet who specializes in the cooling process for dogs.
(TLDR at the end)
Him: My specialty and area of research and focus is hot weather exercise with pits and a few other breeds. I study their panting physiology and they actually have a very, very efficient panting process and they utilize water that is naturally in their body extremely efficiently. One of the worst things you can do actually is to provide water during exercise. You actually want to wait about 2 hours post exercise. You don't need any coconut water. In what part of the country are you located? I will send you a lot of detailed info about running with them in the heat if you would like. I have run and trained and studies them in 100+ degrees. They are amazing and have very unique physiology, especially panting physiology.
(we then switched to email rather than reddit messaging after some unimportant back and forth messages)
Him: I specifically study and work with hot weather running and the panting process and can teach you all about that.
How far do you typically run? They can do very long distances in the heat.
Me: We typically do between 45 minutes to an hour of her sprinting during fetch, then an hour of walking. Im not sure about the distance. I try to exercise her every other day.
Him: I am glad you reached out, as this is my area of expertise and what I have spent a lot of time researching the physiology of water metabolism and the panting process. In fact, I will be publishing an article in the fall on a related topic. These dogs are extreme efficient at using the water naturally in their body and this efficiency increases dramatically in hot weather. Giving water during hot weather exercise is actually one of the things you want to avoid. Sorry if this gets a bit technical, but I would like to give you some background first. The way in which their body handles water is different and unique. As their panting progresses and the tongue extends farther and farther, their body becomes more and more efficient at how it uses and metabolizes water. When you give water while they are panting, you actually significantly decrease their inherent ability to utilize the water already naturally in their system. This is opposite from humans and counterintuitive to what seems would be correct. This is one of the reasons that you can't apply human physiology or characteristics to them. What this means, is that while it might seem like the correct thing to do, you actually do not want to give any water during or directly after their exercise. It both decreases their ability to use the water naturally in their body, AND it dramatically increases the risk for bloat. That is something you want to avoid at all costs. It comes on quickly, and there is little that you can do. Even a small amount of water can trigger it. So, this will take a bit of changing how you have thought about things, but you will be starting to do what is much much better for her. So leave the water at home.
Let me explain a bit about panting. Panting happens in level and I classify their panting in 6 levels (really 5 as you will see that I count a level 0)
Level 0 - This is where their mouth is completely closed and there is no tongue visible .
Level 1 - This is where their mouth has just started to crack open ever so slightly and there is a hint of tongue. They will spend a minute or two at this level and then go back to a level 0 with a completely closed mouth.
Level 2 - The mouth has started to open a bit more and the tongue has extended a tiny bit further. At this point, they may still go back to a level 0 and switch between a level zero, 1, and 2. Level 0-2 can move back and forth between each level fairly easily.
Level 3 - This is starting to look more like what most people associate with panting. The mouth has started to open up more and the tongue has started to hang out a bit more. Also, the “pant break” is starting to become short. Let me explain what I mean by the “pant break.” Panting happens in sessions. They have their tongue out, then they retract their tongue, swallow and they may drop their tongue out again and begin panting again. The time from when they pull their tongue back in until when they drop it out again for the next panting session is what I call the "pant break." As their panting level increases, the pant break gets shorter. The time for tongue retraction, swallow and the tongue falling back out gets shorter. This is a good thing.
Level 4 - Here the mouth has opened up wide and the tongue is hanging out far. Most people would think that this is a full pant, but it is not. Their tongue is VERY long and they have not yet achieve full extension, but it might look like they have. They have not The pant break is getting pretty short at this level.
Level 5 - This is a fully extended tongue, with the tongue absolutely as far out of the mouth as it can go. This is a good thing and it is what you what to get her to and maintain her at while she is running. The pant break is very short. It may look like her tongue falls back out even before she gets it all the way retracted. Her tongue will be wider and flatter. These are all very good signs, and not anything to worry about.
Provided water is not given during the exercise, you are never going to have a problem. I will get into more detail after you read and ask any questions you have. We can talk about specific exercises etc....
.
.
At this point I sent a video of what Kiba is doing after exercise (panting), he says it's a level 3. I mention I also got her wet to cool her down.
.
.
Him: Please do not get her wet. I will explain more later tonight. - - - Just like giving water is a problem, wetting her down is not good. Do not think of her as "hot". Once she gets that tongue out all the way, she is cooling optimally. Wetting her down prevents and diminishes her natural cooling mechanisms.
End
TLDR: online vet says dogs shouldn't have water during exercise but rather a couple hours later and wetting a dog reduces a dogs ability to cool down.
I know there are a few of you here who condition your dogs well beyond what I do with Kiba, so I am wondering if this supposed vets advice sounds accurate? There is no citations other than his personal research which is not verifiable so I wanted to get opinions.
It gets around 110 here in the summers, super dry, and I don't want to reduce her exercise or risk heat exhaustion.
(TLDR at the end)
Him: My specialty and area of research and focus is hot weather exercise with pits and a few other breeds. I study their panting physiology and they actually have a very, very efficient panting process and they utilize water that is naturally in their body extremely efficiently. One of the worst things you can do actually is to provide water during exercise. You actually want to wait about 2 hours post exercise. You don't need any coconut water. In what part of the country are you located? I will send you a lot of detailed info about running with them in the heat if you would like. I have run and trained and studies them in 100+ degrees. They are amazing and have very unique physiology, especially panting physiology.
(we then switched to email rather than reddit messaging after some unimportant back and forth messages)
Him: I specifically study and work with hot weather running and the panting process and can teach you all about that.
How far do you typically run? They can do very long distances in the heat.
Me: We typically do between 45 minutes to an hour of her sprinting during fetch, then an hour of walking. Im not sure about the distance. I try to exercise her every other day.
Him: I am glad you reached out, as this is my area of expertise and what I have spent a lot of time researching the physiology of water metabolism and the panting process. In fact, I will be publishing an article in the fall on a related topic. These dogs are extreme efficient at using the water naturally in their body and this efficiency increases dramatically in hot weather. Giving water during hot weather exercise is actually one of the things you want to avoid. Sorry if this gets a bit technical, but I would like to give you some background first. The way in which their body handles water is different and unique. As their panting progresses and the tongue extends farther and farther, their body becomes more and more efficient at how it uses and metabolizes water. When you give water while they are panting, you actually significantly decrease their inherent ability to utilize the water already naturally in their system. This is opposite from humans and counterintuitive to what seems would be correct. This is one of the reasons that you can't apply human physiology or characteristics to them. What this means, is that while it might seem like the correct thing to do, you actually do not want to give any water during or directly after their exercise. It both decreases their ability to use the water naturally in their body, AND it dramatically increases the risk for bloat. That is something you want to avoid at all costs. It comes on quickly, and there is little that you can do. Even a small amount of water can trigger it. So, this will take a bit of changing how you have thought about things, but you will be starting to do what is much much better for her. So leave the water at home.
Let me explain a bit about panting. Panting happens in level and I classify their panting in 6 levels (really 5 as you will see that I count a level 0)
Level 0 - This is where their mouth is completely closed and there is no tongue visible .
Level 1 - This is where their mouth has just started to crack open ever so slightly and there is a hint of tongue. They will spend a minute or two at this level and then go back to a level 0 with a completely closed mouth.
Level 2 - The mouth has started to open a bit more and the tongue has extended a tiny bit further. At this point, they may still go back to a level 0 and switch between a level zero, 1, and 2. Level 0-2 can move back and forth between each level fairly easily.
Level 3 - This is starting to look more like what most people associate with panting. The mouth has started to open up more and the tongue has started to hang out a bit more. Also, the “pant break” is starting to become short. Let me explain what I mean by the “pant break.” Panting happens in sessions. They have their tongue out, then they retract their tongue, swallow and they may drop their tongue out again and begin panting again. The time from when they pull their tongue back in until when they drop it out again for the next panting session is what I call the "pant break." As their panting level increases, the pant break gets shorter. The time for tongue retraction, swallow and the tongue falling back out gets shorter. This is a good thing.
Level 4 - Here the mouth has opened up wide and the tongue is hanging out far. Most people would think that this is a full pant, but it is not. Their tongue is VERY long and they have not yet achieve full extension, but it might look like they have. They have not The pant break is getting pretty short at this level.
Level 5 - This is a fully extended tongue, with the tongue absolutely as far out of the mouth as it can go. This is a good thing and it is what you what to get her to and maintain her at while she is running. The pant break is very short. It may look like her tongue falls back out even before she gets it all the way retracted. Her tongue will be wider and flatter. These are all very good signs, and not anything to worry about.
Provided water is not given during the exercise, you are never going to have a problem. I will get into more detail after you read and ask any questions you have. We can talk about specific exercises etc....
.
.
At this point I sent a video of what Kiba is doing after exercise (panting), he says it's a level 3. I mention I also got her wet to cool her down.
.
Him: Please do not get her wet. I will explain more later tonight. - - - Just like giving water is a problem, wetting her down is not good. Do not think of her as "hot". Once she gets that tongue out all the way, she is cooling optimally. Wetting her down prevents and diminishes her natural cooling mechanisms.
End
TLDR: online vet says dogs shouldn't have water during exercise but rather a couple hours later and wetting a dog reduces a dogs ability to cool down.
I know there are a few of you here who condition your dogs well beyond what I do with Kiba, so I am wondering if this supposed vets advice sounds accurate? There is no citations other than his personal research which is not verifiable so I wanted to get opinions.
It gets around 110 here in the summers, super dry, and I don't want to reduce her exercise or risk heat exhaustion.
