old classic Hinks terrier/ Indian bull terrier.

[DancesWithCurs]

I wasn't speaking of health, I was simply speaking of the look itself in this matter. Health is a whole other can of worms and if you ever want to see me do a page long rant, give me GSD health is one of the subjects. I'd take a show type BT over a show type GSD any day of the week. I am essentially done with that breed as a whole by this point

 

[Bullful]

Breed Standard

All one need do is go to the parent club of the breed they are interested in. The BT at the BTClub in England (country of origin) and the German Sheperd in Germany of course. Read their illustrated breed standard. You will find a picture of the ideal dog and what "responsible" breeders try to breed for.

---------- Post added at 09:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:48 PM ----------

 

[cliffdog]

Don't get mad just because not everybody likes how show breeders have ruined the look of a once-beautiful breed. You're right, I have no "vested interest" in EBTs, in other words, I'm not kennel blind (or in this case maybe "breed blind" is more appropriate) like you are.

---------- Post added at 11:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:05 PM ----------

I feel like the Indian dogs on this thread have lost all of the bull terrier look to them.

"Lost" it? You can't lose what you never had. These dogs have the breed look, they are proper Bull Terriers. These new age dogs have lost their bull terrier look with their silly misshapen heads.

 

[bravoindian]

Don't get mad just because not everybody likes how show breeders have ruined the look of a once-beautiful breed. You're right, I have no "vested interest" in EBTs, in other words, I'm not kennel blind (or in this case maybe "breed blind" is more appropriate) like you are.

---------- Post added at 11:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:05 PM ----------

"Lost" it? You can't lose what you never had. These dogs have the breed look, they are proper Bull Terriers. These new age dogs have lost their bull terrier look with their silly misshapen heads.

I agree, you cant lose what you never had, People involved in modern bull terrier compare old type dogs with current structure and size and when it doesnt fit there fatyness and lazyness of current dog, they say its lost it lolll

 

[DancesWithCurs]

All one need do is go to the parent club of the breed they are interested in. The BT at the BTClub in England (country of origin) and the German Sheperd in Germany of course. Read their illustrated breed standard. You will find a picture of the ideal dog and what "responsible" breeders try to breed for.

---------- Post added at 09:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:48 PM ----------

Oh god don't get me started, lol

 

[cliffdog]

all one needs to do is look at the dogs that were winning the time the standard was WRITTEN. See my previous pic of Ch Virginalis, a BENCH SHOW champion from the early days. But I guess he "lost the bull terrier look" huh.

 

[mottatron]

I've always loved that pic. That's one beautiful animal.

Exactly. You might like your show ruined dogs but this is what I like:

 

[cliffdog]

Quite fond of it myself! I have a print of it somewhere.

 

[mottatron]

As I read this thread, I have to say some of the comments are getting a bit daft.
None of the dogs are to blame or be praised for their appearance.
Each and everyone from from the original HInks dogs to the fattest most parrot headed show dog are created/designed/shaped my men.
And strong though all our opinions are, I'm guessing that if any of us actually encountered any of these dogs OF ANY TYPE, we'd give them a pat on the head and enjoy their company.
Personally, I genuinely like both types. I admire the athleticism of the older type and I find the newer type beautiful too. As long as they don't have a ridiculous sheep's head. For me the ideal is a gently curving profile on a well-muscled, athletic body.
With LOADS of attitude. Laziness and lack of drive/oomph/get up and go are characteristics that defy the very essence of any type of bull and terrier - Pit, Staff, or standard BT.


Once again, here's Brando. For me, the perfect mix of everything. Bit of show, bit of go, nothing too overdone.
But of course I AM biased!

 

[Mrpedigree]

As I read this thread, I have to say some of the comments are getting a bit daft.
None of the dogs are to blame or be praised for their appearance.
Each and everyone from from the original HInks dogs to the fattest most parrot headed show dog are created/designed/shaped my men.
And strong though all our opinions are, I'm guessing that if any of us actually encountered any of these dogs OF ANY TYPE, we'd give them a pat on the head and enjoy their company.
Personally, I genuinely like both types. I admire the athleticism of the older type and I find the newer type beautiful too. As long as they don't have a ridiculous sheep's head. For me the ideal is a gently curving profile on a well-muscled, athletic body.
With LOADS of attitude. Laziness and lack of drive/oomph/get up and go are characteristics that defy the very essence of any type of bull and terrier - Pit, Staff, or standard BT.


Once again, here's Brando. For me, the perfect mix of everything. Bit of show, bit of go, nothing too overdone.
But of course I AM biased!

Your right Joe ,your dog is the ideal mix of what a modern bull terrier should be imo ,but these APBT fanciers want to pour hate on our breed and say that all bull terriers are fat lazy and over exaggerated etc turn a convenient blind eye to a dog like brando .
Its nonclerical to say that all bull terriers are all lazy out off shape with no drive or get up and go etc etc but they they seem to want to keep beating that drum :rolleyes:
you know these very people should be very careful in pointing their fat fingers at our breed before they take a close look at the state of their own

 

[jacko]

brando looks a decent bull terrier !! beauty is skin deep as the saying goes..

 

[rully]

Are you sure it's not mixed? I've never heard of dogs "going back to the old look" but I guess if you can mutate them into a certain look you can probably morph them back! Pretty interesting.

This type of dogs are breed by Lyndon Ingles from Uk. He has trying for some years to get the bull to the old looks and utility with some success. I will post some more pictures of his dogs and hope he will not be upset on me by doing this. I had his phone number somewhere but he has a welsh accent that is very hard to understand.

 

[SamThePitbull]

I know Im super late to this thread, but how did I miss it!? I love threads about hinks BTs! Especially because for some reason my Sam looks like she could be one! (its doubtful but she still looks the part)..

 

[East Coast Canuck]

@ Pook and Cliff: They're owned by a guy who hunts hogs, coyotes and coons. He mostly runs Dogos and Patterdales but here's his site for his BTs:
http://californiacatchers.com/index.asp?ID=27

What kind of sick f*ck takes pleasure in watching 4 dogs kill a hog or coyote? If you want a blood sport, you should goddam well do it yourself. This is no better than dog fighting, in my opinion. Only difference is it's not another dog getting torn apart. And anyone who is 'culling' half of his dogs obviously is a failure at breeding and should give up. Your dogs should look damn fine when you kill the other half.

 

[East Coast Canuck]

Your right Joe ,your dog is the ideal mix of what a modern bull terrier should be imo ,but these APBT fanciers want to pour hate on our breed and say that all bull terriers are fat lazy and over exaggerated etc turn a convenient blind eye to a dog like brando .
Its nonclerical to say that all bull terriers are all lazy out off shape with no drive or get up and go etc etc but they they seem to want to keep beating that drum :rolleyes:
you know these very people should be very careful in pointing their fat fingers at our breed before they take a close look at the state of their own

Again, I am probably on the wrong side of the fence onthis one, but what's wrong with a lazy BT? No dog should be fat, but if a dog is barrel shaped does not mean it is fat. And some people love the look and personality of a BT, but don't want it to have ~game~. My dogs have always been passive and well behaved couch potatoes. Just because they don't want to go out and kill something, or pull weights, or run around like an idiot constantly doesn't make it any less of a great pet and member of the family.

 

[xchairity_casex]

Again, I am probably on the wrong side of the fence onthis one, but what's wrong with a lazy BT? No dog should be fat, but if a dog is barrel shaped does not mean it is fat. And some people love the look and personality of a BT, but don't want it to have ~game~. My dogs have always been passive and well behaved couch potatoes. Just because they don't want to go out and kill something, or pull weights, or run around like an idiot constantly doesn't make it any less of a great pet and member of the family.

if everyone in the US bred dogs to have "game" can you IMAGINE what kind of living hell the US would be like?? not everyone is physically or mentally capable of dealing with a high drive dog, the world doesnt NEED as many high drive dogs anymore, we just DONT there is NO changeing that, we have technology, we cannot change what we have created and where we are today. so WHAT is the point in mass producing dogs with high drives?????? there is NO point, most of them would just be killed anyways. not becuase all people are lazy but we dont even HAVE the resorces to keep millions of hunting dogs hunting for sport.
it would be a HUGE disaster to set the bull terrier back to how it used to be. and i hate to say it but that IS the VERY reason pitbulls have such a bad rap now, thats the reason there are SO MANY BSL everywhere becuase these dogs STILL have such high drives and people are morons who DONT know or are unable to deal with them. times have changed, we need to change the breeds WE created to match us now. im sure it sound terrable, but we DID create these creatures, we cant change that all we can do is work on changeing them some more so we donot TORMENT them when we cannot accomidate there high needs.

why would you keep creating dogs iwth high drives when there are less and less people capable of dealing with those needs, even if you get these dogs into sports sometimes its NOT enough and its cruel becuase we cant accomadate them, they are manic and unstable and tormented by having this high drive and high energy they cannot expell.

 

[DancesWithCurs]

What kind of sick f*ck takes pleasure in watching 4 dogs kill a hog or coyote? If you want a blood sport, you should goddam well do it yourself. This is no better than dog fighting, in my opinion. Only difference is it's not another dog getting torn apart. And anyone who is 'culling' half of his dogs obviously is a failure at breeding and should give up. Your dogs should look damn fine when you kill the other half.

If you think it's no better than dog fighting, then you've missed the point of hog hunting entirely. However your opinion is your own and you should be perfectly aware that there are a few people who hunt various things using dogs on this board so you might want to stop acting like a holier than thou judgmental douche as it won't end too well

 

[WorkingBullTerrier]

@ East Coast Canuck:

I hog hunt, and nutria hunt with my dogs. (Bull Terriers, APBT's, and Patterdales) These two types of animals specifically have done horrible damage to our crops/property/eco system here. They are destroying our way of life out here, our livliehood, by tearing up crops, etc. They are a nuisance, and breeding like rabbits.

How DARE you have the NERVE to insinuate that in me hunting with my dogs, that that is "no better than dog fighting." Yet another individual passing judgement and making ignorant statements and assumptions about something they no NOTHING about obviously. At least do your research before declaring such judgements and slandering an entire large group of people (hunters that hunt with dogs.)

Let me give you a REALISTIC scenario here so that MAYBE you will have a better understanding of how a typical hog hunt is conducted. We have a small pack of bay dogs, that seek and find the hogs. Their job is to stop the hog from running, keep him at bay, (by barking at the hog, no contact) until we can get there. Once we make it to the bay, we release a catch dog, that immediately takes hold, usually on one of the hog's ears. As soon as the catch dog has hold, we run right in and either hobble the hog, or stick him. The catch dog is immediately pulled off. That catch dog has a VERY important job, as a wild hog is very much capable of tearing a human being up pretty darn bad if given the chance. There is no 'tormenting' or 'watching the dog tear the animals to shreds.' The meat from these feral nuisances, either goes into our freezers to feed our family, or to the local food bank to feed hungry families in need.


People seem to forget that from the beginning of time, man had used dogs for all kinds of different purposes, including HUNTING. Hunting does NOT equal 'watching the dogs tear animals to shreds and be tortured' and all those lovely presumptions I am sick of hearing. My dogs are all my companions, but most of them do indeed partake in various LEGAL activities.

Here are some links to educate yourself on these 'poor hogs' that we hunt. Also the nutria.


http://www.nutria.com/site4.php

http://www.nwrc.usgs.gov/factshts/020-00.pdf

http://icwdm.org/handbook/rodents/nutria.asp

http://www.crittercontrol.com/servic...bitdamage.html

http://www.allstateanimalcontrol.com...bits/index.php

 

[WorkingBullTerrier]

As far as breeding 'high prey driven' dogs....

I do agree. APBT's, BT's and various terriers are NOT a breed for just anyone. It takes a whole 'nother level of responsibility to own one of these dogs. They are genetically wired to be high energy, prey driven dogs. Unfortunately, we cannot control who breeds them and who gets their hands on them. I can speak for myself that as far as my bull and terrier 'working' dogs go, I will ONLY breed to replace aged retired dogs. I keep them all, with exception of passing one along to a close friend that is involved in hunting like I am. The practice of culling working dog stock will always be contraversial in TODAY'S day and age, but most that breed with a true purpose (not just to peddle off puppies) will always have a good understanding of the concept. I do not dare judge those that have bull and terrier breeds as couch warmers, and I don't expect to be judged just because I DO do activities such as weight pull, and hunting with my dogs (aside from them being my companions.)

 

[Ali132]

If people don't want high drive dogs they should get something more low key.. Simple really.
These dogs were bred for a job, drive isn't going to change in the breed.

DWC do you think a old school bt would be good for hog hunting?
i know the other guy who hunts gigs ( why am I having such a brain fart!) was explaining why modern day bt's aren't good.