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Ok all this talk about standard and registries

Discussion in 'Breeder Discussion' started by pitchik, Jun 13, 2008.

  1. Sagebrush

    Sagebrush Good Dog

    Wow! Haven't read this whole thread, but wanted to comment here....Knuckles appears to be all Am Staf -- A VERY, VERY POOR ONE! I notice he has a UKC GR. CH. title....does he have an AKC title?

    Carla
     
  2. DaWiz3721

    DaWiz3721 Banned

    APBT's and AST's are the same dog. There is nothing new about not breeding APBT's purely for the pit. Their were simply game bred dogs, and non game bred dogs. Since the beginning APBT's were not solely for fighting. A game bred dog was bred for one thing, and one thing only......to win! Not looks, not skinny lanky non bully looks, either it was a winner or not. Not all were winners, many "non-winners" would be culled out, and in some cases, kept for family dogs. It is nothing new to breed APBT's for better temperments. AST's were bred from the same "game bred" lines, they are the same breed, although you could say different strains. AST's was just a way of getting the AKC to recognize the dog. It was not uncommon for a pre-AST dog to display the AST traits, it was just generally not selectively bred for that(figting was still both legal, and popular). In some cases it was tho, the AST's are an example of dogs selectively bred for their other qualities. This was going on well before the AKC accepted AST's. It was, and still is commonplace for some APBT's to resemble the terrier side of things, and some APBT's to resemble the bully side of thngs. Since they descend from a mix of various euro terriers, and the original english working bull, which itself originally had no specific look, but was just a name for any dog that was used for bull baiting. This is why APBT's can vary in shape and size so much. AST's were selectively bred out of the SAME lines, for a more stable temperment, and a more standard conformation. If anything dual registering them, is stabilizing the breed more. There is one thing all dogs should bred for first and foremost...and that is health, anything else should come second.

    The american bully is a whole other story, those dogs are either dwarfism exploited, or english bulldogs mixed in, which is a original bull mixed with a pug, or both. English bulls, would be breeding outside the gene pool tottally.
     
  3. pitchik

    pitchik Good Dog

    Wow, I cannot believe how many pages that this thread went!!!All because of the varying disagreements on what dog should or should not have won what titles!

    I like this post:
    APBT's and AST's are the same dog. There is nothing new about not breeding APBT's purely for the pit. Their were simply game bred dogs, and non game bred dogs. Since the beginning APBT's were not solely for fighting. A game bred dog was bred for one thing, and one thing only......to win! Not looks, not skinny lanky non bully looks, either it was a winner or not. Not all were winners, many "non-winners" would be culled out, and in some cases, kept for family dogs. It is nothing new to breed APBT's for better temperments. AST's were bred from the same "game bred" lines, they are the same breed, although you could say different strains. AST's was just a way of getting the AKC to recognize the dog. It was not uncommon for a pre-AST dog to display the AST traits, it was just generally not selectively bred for that(figting was still both legal, and popular). In some cases it was tho, the AST's are an example of dogs selectively bred for their other qualities. This was going on well before the AKC accepted AST's. It was, and still is commonplace for some APBT's to resemble the terrier side of things, and some APBT's to resemble the bully side of thngs. Since they descend from a mix of various euro terriers, and the original english working bull, which itself originally had no specific look, but was just a name for any dog that was used for bull baiting. This is why APBT's can vary in shape and size so much. AST's were selectively bred out of the SAME lines, for a more stable temperment, and a more standard conformation. If anything dual registering them, is stabilizing the breed more. There is one thing all dogs should bred for first and foremost...and that is health, anything else should come second.

    It seems to make alot of sense. I mean, we were not around that long ago so in all reality how can anyone here say for 100% what the APBT purely consists of, and who has the rights to write that in stone? Who has the rights to make it a "law" so to speak?

    I dunno-I am not planning on breeding so the matter is out of my hands. I just asked why a dog like Knuckles can get such titles when so many disagree with what he looks like and his conformation verses a "game dog" conformation.

    Hell............he EARNED them titles:)
     
  4. DaWiz3721

    DaWiz3721 Banned

    There is no "game dog" conformation in reality. It was only about fighting. A fighting dog, just gets chewed, and scarred up anyway. Pretty didnt cut it for a fighting dog. Most true "game bred" dogs, werent pedigreed either. The breeders/trainers, usually didnt want people to know the secrets of their champions. Thus, most of the "game bred" dogs, were never papered or kept track of. By 2008 "game bred" dogs should be at least 32+ years removed, as fighting dogs became a federal crime. The UKC has officially not condoned it for about 100 years(not sure on ADBA off top of my head). So how do these people have "game bred" dogs????? The only way to know if your dog is "game" or not, is guess what? To fight them. There is only one way to selectively breed for "gameness", and that is to fight them, and select the best fighters for breeding..... Anyone still practicing this should should be taken out and shot! Unfortunately, its going on all the time.....closer to home than you think. And in all probable mathematics, probably individual(s) on this forum. Not a fact mind you, and no disrespect intended to this forum. But highly probable, their is no way to know every single member of this site. Not to mention if people like that are in our midsts, theyre probably not going to talk about it either. At least not to you.
    Every generation the dogs are not fought, the less "game bred" they become. All of our dogs SHOULD be 32 years minimum removed from "game dogs". I myself have owned pits where "game" was not too distant in their pedigree. The only real difference, is their shapes and size vary more, and theyre overly aggressive toward any other animal,even the AST's can still be aggressive/athletic, but a "game" dog is overly agressive, what is the purpose for that? Just like some are more "bully" and some are more terrier, some are more tenacious(terrier), others are more brauny(bull), and even tempered. Although they were mostly used for figting in the early days, it was not solely what they were used or bred for. Its all about what the dog was intended to be used for.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 3, 2008
  5. Sagebrush

    Sagebrush Good Dog

    It's pretty well-known in the dog show world that there are many undeserving conformation champions.

    UKC, AKC judges that are putting up these heavy thick, broad, short-muzzled, short-legged, basketball headed dogs are WRONG. Period. They do not understand the Standard or the history of the dogs behind it.

    Carla
     

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