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Odin Breeder Discussion

Discussion in 'Breeder Discussion' started by Teal, Oct 10, 2009.

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  1. Teal

    Teal Krypto Super Dog Premium Member

    You're a cutie! And good for you, working on getting over your apprehension :) That's a very beautiful bully!

    But I am a little but confused... what is your dog and/or a pup out of Odin, that you had the incident with?
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 10, 2009
  2. Teal

    Teal Krypto Super Dog Premium Member

    Oh, so not only did you go near THIS dog... you have a pup out of him! That's definitely a good way to overcome your fear!

    I just want to ask though... Does Odin and the bitch he was bred to that produced your dog have numerous titles and health testing to make sure they are sound dogs to even have been bred? I don't want you to fear Blaze... but if you got him from an unscrupulous breeder who doesn't put more weight in genetics, temperament, and soundness than colour ... you could see issues.
  3. shadowwolf

    shadowwolf Good Dog

    Not to burst your bubble, but 'Purple Ribbon' or 'PR' only means the dog's ancestors have been registered with the UKC for six generations - even one of my dog's has that and I didn't pay a dime for him.

    What Teal was referring to was titles attributing to the dog's merit to be bred - conformation and working (ex: weight pull, agility, obedience) along with temperament titles like the Canine Good Citizenship (CGC) and ATTS Temperament Test (TT) - along with health testing through the Orthopedic Foundation for Animals (OFA) or PennHip for genetic disorders (which pit bulls can be prone to - especially when bred for size/color) - like hip and elbow dysplasia, luxating patellas (slipping knees), cardiac issues (Gaff lines are prone to this), and thyroid issues.

    Responsible breeders use all the tools of the trade to evaluate each and every dog in their breeding program and don't charge an exorberant amount of money for the puppy buyer to purchase an animal from them. Unfortunately, I don't doubt you got suckered by a cute puppy, gorgeous colored dogs (because blue dogs ARE pretty) and then got nailed with a price tag on said puppy because of the colors and not for the work that the breeder put into the dogs campaigning them in working and conformation events - hence a breeder breeding for color and NOT to improve the breed.
  4. I produced Odin and he is pointed through UKC CGC and healthe certed. DEREK

    ---------- Post added at 09:41 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:40 AM ----------

    I correct my self I own ODIN and Produced BLAZE.

    ---------- Post added at 09:43 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:41 AM ----------

    Look at my site. I am the one who produced BLAZE all health certs are done on my dogs.

    ---------- Post added at 09:46 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:43 AM ----------

    Look at my site. Both sire and dam from that litter are PennHip.Cerf, OFA, Cardio. All my dogs that are in my breeding program have all their health certifications.

    ---------- Post added at 09:48 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:46 AM ----------

    Oh yea and Blazes litter mate who I kept just took all breed puppy best in show!
    See you in the ring.

    ---------- Post added at 10:30 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:48 AM ----------

    One more thing 'PR' means that the first three generations are UKC registered. Look it up.
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 13, 2009
  5. Alex Kelm

    Alex Kelm Puppy

    Derek your supposed to put that all in one post, and won't look like that -- thanks for posting up, I am still learning on everything that goes into making a pup. :)

    ---------- Post added at 10:58 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:52 AM ----------

    I paid the money I did because I saw the mom, I heard all about the dad, and both owners became my friends. GOOD genuine people too. Plus the litter Blaze came from is super close, and I have trouble learning things sometimes due to having Aspergers Disorder so it's nice to know that my friend & breeder is just a phone call away -- I know he would be over at my house if I had a problem or need help with training. That's more than you can say bout most breeders... :)

    I know when my buddy is sending out a mass text offering $100 for a pit pup that has no papers or anything versus paying for something with papers, all the litter is close (all males and females from the litter are within a short car drive away) and I really like that. Blaze's sister, Amira, just took home first in a UKC show... I can't wait to get Blaze up to standards, right now he's just a big goof ball like his owner... sigh haha. :D
  6. shadowwolf

    shadowwolf Good Dog

    Your dog was CERF certified only in 2007. That health test is a yearly test, therefore that one isn't valid. What are Odin's PennHip scores?

    Only half of that breeding was health certified according to your own website since the bitch is clearly not health tested -- and the only other dog health tested by the breeder (Diamond's Edge) is a half sibling on the sire's side. (OFA results can be found here after a simple search: OFA: Display OFA Records)

    So...she took Best Puppy in the NON-LICENSED class. That means not a lick of difference. I've seen dogs put up in NON-LICENSED that by the time they hit the LICENSED classes couldn't take a placement to save their life. It also depends on the number of dogs in the class (I doubt there were that many - I do know how many APBTs have been showing in class numbers and it's dwindling - compared to the 10+ dogs in an ADBA show - which I highly doubt any of your dogs would place in) as well as the judge's preference and if they truly were following the revised APBT breed standard.

    "Purple Ribbon" is a distinction UKC gives to a dog if all 14 ancestors within a dog's three generation pedigree (parents, grand parents, great grandparents) are each registered with United Kennel Club."

    Taken directly from the site - I stand only mildly corrected. All 14 dogs within that 3 generations must be registered UKC or it's worthless and no pretty little identifying marker of 'PR' is put in front of the dog. All that really says is that the breeders/owners of those ancestors spent money with the UKC and the UKC identifies them with that marker - it doesn't make that dog worth anymore money - especially not $1,800 for a CO-OWN -- a dog that Alex doesn't even own outright!
  7. Alex Kelm

    Alex Kelm Puppy

    I don't own him fully until the last payment is completed, which will be done soon -- we're on the last one now.
    and it wasn't $1,800 that was wrong -- it was about $1,000 -- the females were going for more in the litter I stand corrected now that I remember back. My bad.

    and $1,000 is a damn good deal.
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 11, 2009
  8. Teal

    Teal Krypto Super Dog Premium Member

    Alex... forgive me for what I am about to say LOL

    I think if you had wanted a TRUE American Pit Bull Terrier to overcome your fear with, love, bond with, etc. you should have looked into TRUE American Pit Bull Terrier breeders.

    Odin and the bitch he was bred to (Champagne, was it?), while nice looking dogs, are more American Bully... and it's nearly a proven fact that MOST American Bully breeders are breeding for looks and size - neither of which was EVER a factor in real APBT breeding. That is why I asked if the dogs were health tested and titled, because you are putting a LOT of merit into something that might not deserve it. It is NOT "all in how you raise them" and if Blaze's sire and dam, or dogs behind them in the pedigree, are/were not sound... you could have problems. That's all. You have a good outlook on things, but it's still a little skewed.

    Genuwine Kings - *shakes head* I understand you're trying to defend your breeding practices... who wouldn't, when they are making thousands of dollars off a pup? But you're breeding with the same low standards as most other American Bully breeders and selling your pups for the same outrageous prices that nearly no dog is worth. But, people will pay it... so you can charge it. It's a cycle that isn't going to end.

    Anywho... my point being... being 'PR' UKC registered has NOTHING AT ALL to do with Blaze's temperament or soundness. I would choose an unregistered puppy from a man who shot any dog that growled at anyone, over a 'PR' UKC registered dog just for the papers.

    IN FACT - I HAD a 'PR' UKC registered bitch earlier this year, that I sadly had to put to sleep at 11 months old for trying to take the face off my roommate's brother. Come to find out... her dam is a sketchy, fearful thing. And he's still breeding her. Why? Because she's XXL and produces XXL blue puppies :rolleyes:

    Okay. sorry for the extreme thread take-over.

    What was that earlier about that word... refrain? LOL

    ETA: In light of your new post, Alex. Responsible breeders don't charge more for bitch puppies. And $1,000 is NOT a good deal, when none of those dogs are worth that much anyways. A TRUE, ADBA registered APBT from lines that go WAY back with responsible breeders and dogmen may run ya $500 at most. It's not about the money with them, it's about the DOGS. When it gets to be about the money, that's when you are dealing with people breeding status symbol dogs, like American Bullies.

    Whew... I'm done! lol
  9. woody d

    woody d Big Dog

    wow, $1000 for ONE dog? what a good deal:rolleyes:, and to think, i paid less than that for two real APBTs:lol:
  10. shadowwolf

    shadowwolf Good Dog

    See, that's the novel concept - most REPUTABLE breeders don't believe in pumping litter after litter out in a 3 month span....or breeding the testicles off of a male just because he's "blue and big".
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 13, 2009
  11. CoolHandJean

    CoolHandJean Krypto Super Dog

    Why is it that when someone questions someone about their breeding program, instead of explaining their breeding program, they try to turn it around and say, "Well, what is your breeding program?" or try to imply that if you don't have a breeding program, you must not know what you are talking about.

    If you have dogs that you believe are truly worth 1000 dollars a pop, then I am sure you have some very good reason to why you believe they are worth that price. If so, explain that. Instead of just giving some childish response, or if you don't really care what people think of your breeding program, then just ignore them, because what does it really matter. You will keep doing what you are doing anyway.
  12. woody d

    woody d Big Dog

    Im sorry CHJ, but there isnt a pup out there worth $1000. what has a pup done to prove worth? thats right, NOTHING. i dont care who the dam and sire are, pups are just a gamble, not a sure thing.
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 13, 2009
  13. Lowlife

    Lowlife Big Dog

    Unfortunately any things is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. In these situations people are paying for the lip service of the "salesman", 99% of the time they don't even get a reach around or Vaseline to go with it.
  14. You see this!?!?! All you people are so bent on what everyone else is doing. Go take your dog for a walk and complain to them. If you dont like my dogs or what I produce then dont buy one! Its as simple as that. You can save your bullshit bickering and bashing on my breeding program and put that effort into something better. Why dont you help people out instead of trying to be better than them. You know no one is an expert on anything and all advice is taken kindly to me. I dont take corrective critisism personaly I actually like it. Instead of most of you people here who take it all to heart. I dont go to AKC shows and that other AA?? or what ever it is shows because everyone is so stuck up and on their high horse and dont care about anyone but themselves. Most people at the UKC shows are there to help and compliment you not pick out flaws on your dogs to make them feel better. I could go on for days to you people(you know who im talking about) Think long and hard before you talk shit on someone. Maybe you could help them out.
  15. woody d

    woody d Big Dog

    so tell us why your dogs are worth $1000 dollars....i wanna hear it. otherwise ill say whatever i want. i despise folks peddling dogs at rediculous prices by feeding prospective customers full of shit.
  16. Despise me all you want Woody. If people are going to pay $1000 for a dog of mine im going to take it. If you dont want to pay $1000 for a dog then dont buy one from me. Is that good enough for you? If you had a litter of dogs that people were fighting over pics you would take the highest bidder and send the dog to the best home you could. If you wouldnt your an idiot. All you people do is fucking complain!!!!
  17. Miakoda

    Miakoda GRCH Dog

    We have a few members that breed and sell multiple litters a year for absurd prices. Why? Because they can.

    IMO it's about ego and being "cool". Heck, what's more cool that having the best (aka most expensive) pits in the 'hood? What makes one more impressive to others? Oh, having the most badass pits in the world.

    For some people, the price they charge seems to provide proof that their dogs are the best of the best. When in fact, for most, the price reflects nothing more than an attempt to make an easy buck off the ignorance or stupidity of others.

    I will not pay $1,000 for a "pit bull". I will not pay that price for a "pit" with a questionable ped. I will not pay that price for a dog that is so grotesquely out of proportion and out of any breed standard.

    I once paid that price for a dog. I bought a 1-yr-old gyp directly off Ratliff's Butkus and Anderson's Stoney. I never regretted it nor do I regret it now. But I can say that I will never pay that price for a dog again. And if I do, it will be for a REAL APBT that represents everything this breed was, everything it is, and everything it should be.

    ---------- Post added at 01:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:22 PM ----------

    It's not complaining.

    Believe it or not, some people love the dogs for what they are. Some people work 2 jobs just to support their dog habit. Not everyone has these dogs with a "what can they do for me?" mentality. Not everyone has these dogs to make a lazy man's wage off of them.

    It's about loving and respecting the breed and the dogs. It's about honor and pride.

    It's not about money. It should never be about money. If it's money one wants, one should get an honest man's job.
  18. First off you little "hood" quote is stupid. I live in a pretty upscale area in dc. Second off I work two jobs one of which is fighting for your freedom to sit and bitch safely in the the great United States of America.
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 13, 2009
  19. CoolHandJean

    CoolHandJean Krypto Super Dog

    I don't think I am "better" than anyone, and I already have walked my dogs, and in a tiny bit am going to go do some more exercise with them. My dogs aren't "better" than other people's dogs. My dogs are backyard bred dogs, and one of those bybing were done by me. So, it's not like I am saying, "Oh, I am so much better, and I have never done anything wrong."

    I am just saying it appears that you really do care what we think otherwise, you would just ignore this thread. Since you do seem to care, and since you think you do have a good breeding program, my only thing is tell us why you think you have a good breeding program. Not everyone is going to agree, but at least, if we heard from you, what you think makes which dogs worthy of being bred, then at least, we can try to understand where you are coming from. If you are just breeding to make money, then yes, many of us will have a problem with that, however, you are right. They are your property. You can do just about whatever you want with them. At the same token, we have the right not to be happy with it, because in many ways, it effects the whole Bully breed community.
  20. Alex Kelm

    Alex Kelm Puppy

    Funny that the entire litter is all within a 30min driving radius and we are also all connected via Facebook, etc so I get to see how the litter is devloping and they can play together... -- also that they have good homes, of course they have good homes I cant get over how some of you are acting or just, well the way you guys simply are it shocks me. You dont even know Derek nor have you visited GenuwineKings.... but all of you are quick to point out every little flaw.

    I hope he makes even more a pup cause money makes the world go around if you didnt know.... what do you think his pits end up in the pound? nope, if something happens you return the pit to derek.
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