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New rescue pitbull mom needs help :)

Discussion in 'Introductions' started by Evann, Dec 13, 2018.

  1. brindle

    brindle Little Dog

    Beautiful dogs AGK. I've admired your bulldogs for a long time, you have some fine ones. Great posts too, but I have to wonder if we are beating a dead horse…
     
    Nat Ursula and AGK like this.
  2. AGK

    AGK Scratch Kingz Staff Member Super Moderator

    Thank you Brindle. Appreciate the kind words. We definitely are beating a dead horse here. There will always be people that will go agaisnt the grain in this breed of dog unfortunately. With Game-dog being so slow anymore I figured I'd come on over here for a bit, see how everyone has been and stir the pot a little lol.

    Seems a lot more active over here than it is over there. Plus it's nice to read different things than the same old things we talk about over there constantly. We're posting threads about what we're cooking for dinner its that slow anymore...
     
    Nat Ursula likes this.
  3. Michele

    Michele Chi Super Dog Staff Member Administrator

    AGK: I LOVE the brown dog with the black snout.
     
    PITPAL, Nat Ursula and AGK like this.
  4. oldman

    oldman Little Dog

    One thing I might mention. Many weight pulling dogs are not pure pit bulls. Some of the most well known lines are pit bull crosses. There are quite a few that are pure pit bulls. I was a founding member of the first ADBA club to have weight pulls. Our track was used in most of the first weight pulls.
    Catch dogs are pretty much like weight pulling dogs. Many are cross bred. Usually the ones that are pure pit are the culls, they curred out. Many pit bulls could never be released into a pack of hog hunting dogs. They would immediately attack the other dogs.

    I tried the weight pulling but didn't care for it. Back when it first started people were allowed to bait their dog. You were not allowed to use anything alive but everything else was legal. I even knew a man who used a lawn mower to bait his dog. I did do quite a bit of catch work. Where I lived we had a lot of feral hogs. I knew a man who had some cocker spaniel/fox terrier crosses that he used as catch dogs. Of course they were limited to the small hogs. I can remember watching one of my dogs the first time she ever saw a cow. She was less than a year old and weighed 40lbs. My neighbor was feeding out a steer and was trying to load it. I let my little dog go and she immediately threw the 1000lb steer to the ground.

    On the trained to fight subject. We have mentioned the Cajun rules. It is the most used rules for matching dogs. If you will read them you will have a much better understanding about fighting dogs. A dog is given every opportunity to not fight. They have to make the decision for themselves. It is illegal to help the dog in any way. If they do not want to fight all they have to do is stand behind their scratch line and be counted out. The match is over.
    I have been to matches and owned several match dogs. The first dog I matched was conditioned and handled by a man names Hammonds. You may have heard of him. Both dogs were at 51lbs. We were given some great odds as my dog didn't have any teeth. My dog won in just a little over 1 hour.

    Don't know if you have watched many pit bull dog shows. I competed in both UKC and ADBA. ADBA dogs are usually lighter built that UKC and conditioned. ADBA likes aggressive dogs. UKC does not allow dog aggression. I can remember taking a dog that I had shown in UKC to his first ADBA show. When showing in UKC I used a choke chair on the dog. In ADBA I used a leather collar on the dog. We were circling the ring and some of the dogs were very aggressive. My dog answered them. The judge finally made me move my dog to the other end of the ring which was a rodeo arena. He was still hot even at that distance. Several people who were showing dogs went to the president of the club complaining about me doping my dog. The president of the club, who knew me well, told them ADBA encourages aggressive dogs. You have just seen a truly aggressive dog. A week or so later I showed the same dog in another UKC show where he was a well behaved dog.
     
    EstyEsty, AGK and brindle like this.
  5. brindle

    brindle Little Dog

    Good to see you over here AGK. I also saw that Game Dog was pretty quiet. What's cookin' for dinner.... I'd missed that one, LOL!
     
    Nat Ursula, EstyEsty and AGK like this.
  6. AGK

    AGK Scratch Kingz Staff Member Super Moderator

    Thanks that's Pumpkin. She's a spitting image of her sire and her daughter in my avatar picture Harley Q is a spitting image of her. My Geachison should have been named Xerox because he produced carbon copies of himself no matter what he was bred to. Miss him. Passed away on Scratch n go kennels yard last year where I placed him to get bred more than I could do with him.
     
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  7. EstyEsty

    EstyEsty Little Dog Premium Member

    Bravo!!
     
    Nat Ursula likes this.
  8. EstyEsty

    EstyEsty Little Dog Premium Member

    AKG, I could listen to you all day long....I love the way you write and what you write!
     
    Nat Ursula and AGK like this.
  9. EstyEsty

    EstyEsty Little Dog Premium Member

    This is truly a super interesting thread. Roll Tide!!
     
    Nat Ursula likes this.
  10. PITPAL

    PITPAL Puppy

    Does that happen with every litter?
    Do all the individuals in the litter express the same exact level of aggression?
    What is their COI?
    That stands for coefficient of inbreeding.
    Are they inbred and mentally unstable?
    Are they physically unhealthy due to being bred to close?
    It doesn’t surprise me at all that there are individuals that try to kill their litter mates. I had the same thing with German lines of the GSP we bred. But not all were like that and I’d bet it’s the exception with your dogs also. Unless, you have done a poor job of doing your homework and genetic testing, thus producing poorly bred dogs.
     
  11. AGK

    AGK Scratch Kingz Staff Member Super Moderator

    I try to be humble and not come off as a know it all prick, at times though I know I fail at that, egos are no stranger to this breed we all think we have the best shit out there. No one knows it all. I was told once that once you think you know it all it's time to start all over because you don't know shit. I consider myself nothing more than a student of the breed and even after 2 decades of raising these dogs I still read about them every single day and strive to learn new ways, methods, practices etc. I only try to post my own personal experiences and things I myself have done or seen personally. Thank you though for the kind words. I just want everyone to enjoy and be safe with their dogs since what anyone does with their dogs publicly affects us all.

    I have my moments though and can be a troll at times for shits n giggles lol. I'm a complex person what can i say lol.
     
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  12. oldman

    oldman Little Dog

    Sometimes people will get the wrong idea about inbreeding. It can be very good or very bad. There has been inbreeding in every breed of dogs. That is where we get the breeds to begin with. In breeding can be very helpful in instilling certain traits into your line of dogs. You can almost always be sure to
    have a quality dog if you have any idea about your dog and genetics.
    Scatter bred dogs are not usually what people would consider quality dogs.
    I have seen dog so inbred that the entire 7th generation in their pedigree only has one set of dogs listed.
    The dogs were very high quality and very healthy. In breeding is not something a person should do unless they know what they are doing and know the dogs they are breeding. In breeding gets a bad rap because some people inbreed simply because they have the dogs handy.
     
    AGK likes this.
  13. PITPAL

    PITPAL Puppy

    The. Tell us who we are talking too. You say these dogs are off wining dogs. What dogs? Post their peds! If they can’t be in public because they go apeshit then they have NOT been socialized. U admit that. Are your dogs inbred? If so what is their COI???
    Tell us what you’ve done with your dogs. My guess is that I can’t. If you could you’d have done so already.

    My dogs (most of them) can be around other dogs. They can even go on a trail ride along with pointers and setters all doing their respective jobs.
    Accidents have happened, dogs have gotten into fights. But it’s not always the APBT. And when a fight breaks out it’s broke up quickly. They get training in the field. (They make the best squirrel dogs and if we lived in big bear country like my brother does I’d have two of them or one for every horse to protect them against bears). They also participate in the various competitions, agility, vertical and long jump, weight pull, etc.

    I don’t think any of the dogs end up in the hands of dog fighters but I know that those dogs have gotten a lot of attention from buyers in Latin America.

    I’m sorry your dogs aren’t capable of being in public or around one another without killing one another. I’m sorry they aren’t capable of having the the mental stability to do all the things that other APBT owners enjoy.

    Thank you though for letting us know that there are bloodlines out there that aren’t good for anything that’s not illegal.

    Thanks!
     
  14. AGK

    AGK Scratch Kingz Staff Member Super Moderator

    Lmao. Yes, I know what it means. I'm at about mid to upper 30% range. Many of the pedigree databases offer the coi% Your comparing apples to potato chips with your german shepard reference. The pups are just doing what they are supposed to do, just younger than I'd like at times which is very common in this breed. It don't surprise me either because they are doing what they are programed for centuries to do. The way you talk about inbreeding and linebreeding is always seems to be in a negative light. Inbreeding and linebreeding are essential tools in ANY purebred animal breeding program. You don't get uniform animals with scatterbreeding. You end up with a litter where none of the pups look the same in phenotype. Dogs are not like people when it comes to inbreeding and tolerate it pretty well, some better than others. Wolf packs are proof of that. After too much of it then sure things will start being lost and other things start popping up thats why you have to both cull and know when is a good time to outcross. Without inbreeding most all of the family of dogs out there would not exist.
     
  15. AGK

    AGK Scratch Kingz Staff Member Super Moderator

    I posted the peds and answered all those questions already 17 posts ago. Put your glasses on.. Maybe instead of trying to be Mr educator, you should stop typing to respond and start reading to understand instead. I want to see your so called APBTs pedigree. Post yours so called gamedog. If it's that blue and white dog in your avatar I'll laugh you out this converstion....
     
  16. AGK

    AGK Scratch Kingz Staff Member Super Moderator

    Your dogs can do all that stuff because you most likely dont have a real apbt. You probably are like many others out there that has a dog that looks the part but really isn't what you think it is, is not bred to the standard of the breed or you simply have a bunch of curs and cold dogs or some backyard incarnation of the breed. . .

    Lets see your peds. You seem to be avoiding that. Lmao. I wonder why.....
     
  17. PITPAL

    PITPAL Puppy

    Sorry AGK,
    Dogs don’t tolerate inbreeding well. At all. And if you were doing genetic testing you would know that. Not sure what German Shepard ref you are talking about.
    A 30% COI is exceptionally high with this breed. The breeding program that I developed uses 3rd degree relatives from established lines. This goes on until a high percentage of the offspring meet the standard. From that point you use only heritage animals (offspring that are a result of breeding the 2nd generation from the original X hybrid offspring. My method uses a “sacred breed back” which uses the original hybrid 50/50 dam side vs sire side to then solidify the genetics you’ve been breeding to all along. It’s critical this be done at a very specific time, but my point here is that from then on the objective is to breed only heritage animals with 3 degrees of separation. Once we established our new line our COI was was just under 6%.
    We avoided all genetic problems, increased the health, utility, serviceability, and consistency of the breed in terms of a standard. The traits we wanted to keep we kept. The traits we wanted to accentuate we accentuated. The traits we wanted to suppress we suppressed.
    Genetically we all but eliminated 2 breed specific genes that we linked to disease and poor health. Our dogs are probably the most genetically tested animals that aren’t in disease studies.

    Again, point being that a COI of 30% means that it’s sharing (statistically speaking) one third of its DNA is going to be homozygous and carry with it deleterious effects on both the individuals and the breed as a whole. It’s no wonder your dogs are so mentally and emotionally unstable

    My reccomendations would be to go outside of your current stock and breed back in a well bred animal with a very low COI. Less than 5%. My guess is you’ll see the benefit of hybrid vigor right away. from there you can use specific INdividuals to increase consistency.

    I’ll go on if you would like to hear more
     
  18. PITPAL

    PITPAL Puppy

    I don’t have the dogs I want to start my breeding program yet. That’s why I’m on here. To network so I can find them

    CK
     
  19. AGK

    AGK Scratch Kingz Staff Member Super Moderator

    . please dont give me advise. Thats a joke right? Lmao
    When you produce something that can compete with mine in any venue other than going to the dog park I'll take you serious. Good luck.
     
    Nat Ursula likes this.
  20. AGK

    AGK Scratch Kingz Staff Member Super Moderator

    Dude just stop. We all are not laughing with you. We are laughing at you.....

    Don't even have the dogs. Lmmfao.

    I think I'm done now. There is nothing you can prove to me........ Come back when you can and I'll put my genetics up against yours and we'll see how it goes..... ;)
     
    EstyEsty likes this.

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