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Legal game testing, IS IT POSSIBLE???

Discussion in 'Dog Debates' started by PITPAL, Dec 4, 2018.

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  1. AGK

    AGK Scratch Kingz Staff Member Super Moderator

    If you change the dogs purpose you then will change the breed. Thats with ANY breed of dog.

    Actually, the sport of dogfighting itself is a controlled event in a controlled environment. It's why the box is only 3 feet high, gives the dogs a chance to jump if they dont want to be there. You also have handlers whom are handling the dogs, seperating them and allowing them to scratch giving them a choice to stop or go. Thats the very definition of controlled. A fight in the wild is uncontrolled. A legit match is highly controlled.
     
    brindle likes this.
  2. AGK

    AGK Scratch Kingz Staff Member Super Moderator

    I think the biggest misconception with gameness is people think it's a common thing. It's not, it's why it's so treasured in this breed of dog when one shows it. The famous saying " don't be surprised when they quit, be suprised when they don't" is a very true point. Also, you don't see gameness from the top dog, you see it from the bottom one, the one that is getting his brakes beat off him yet refused to quit. Most any breed will continue a fight if it's going their way. It's what they do when things are not going their way that is being looked for when testing. Therefore I don't believe in a world where animals are held up higher than people are that your going to be able to test for it in any legal way. In the US that is...
     
    Michele, brindle and oldman like this.
  3. oldman

    oldman Little Dog

    All people who own or want to own a pit bull should read the Cajun rules. It will give them some idea of the history of the breed. It is very much different than most people think.
     
    AGK likes this.
  4. Mister

    Mister Little Dog

    None of my dogs pedigrees are online so can’t be shown. As for what category of breeder I am I wouldn’t know nor care about, that’s for others to decide. I only ever breed for myself and have only let go a handful of pups that I’ve bred, 3 earned titles the other two I’m told were proven but I lost touch with those owners many years ago.
    I very much doubt you know the majority of breeders personally in the entire US or even your own state. So you saying the majority are not honest or are incompetent is 100% bollox. The fact is your talking rubbish about people you have no real knowledge of. If you don’t want to be associated with peta or other such organisations then stop repeating their propaganda mantra for the breed.
     
    Conflictive Nature and AGK like this.
  5. Mister

    Mister Little Dog

    So? Inbreeding is just tool, utilised right it can help eliminate inherent problems in a line whilst keeping the good traits a line may be known for. As with any form of breeding it has to be done with hard nosed selectively for it to be of use.

    Why should we test a selective well bred functional dog? You should let the function tell you if your dog is physically capable to perform it’s task. Inherent physical issues quickly become very apparent when the dog is put to it’s task. In any breed I’ve been involved with, the only genuine inherent physical issues were always with the show bred versions never once in the functional dog bred from functional lines. If I thought a functional bred dog needed testing then I’d eliminate that one from any further breeding program.

    How does one test a grown bulldog for temperament? Every bulldog that’s proven itself a bulldog that I know of would fail any modern day temperament test because of their tendency to be best buddies with other dogs lol. One would/should know before the time a dog is mature at the very latest if there is any temperament issues. Then if ones responsible cull the dog. There are always going to be dogs outside the parameters of what’s acceptable both physically and temperamentally in any breed, no one saying there isn’t. All one does then is remove the dog with flaws from any breeding program.

    I don’t think you have much real knowledge or genuine understanding of the bulldog. Your subsequent posts after the one above tells me you don’t. For example the slightly turned out feet or easty westy feet you called them, you classed as a major fault in the breed, is in matter of fact an asset as it helps a dog sidestep/manoeuvre quicker in the fight than if it’s feet were straight ahead. Worse is you don’t respect the breed or it’s history or you wouldn’t be implying we shouldn’t be breeding for gameness, how is losing the main characteristic that separates the breed from the rest improving the breed?
     
    Conflictive Nature and Michele like this.
  6. Mister

    Mister Little Dog

    I said it’s ILLEGAL not legal.
     
  7. Worg

    Worg Big Dog

    Because the health issues are becoming apparent in this breed, especially though allergies and cancers. Some issues dont outwardly show for years and a dog can function fine before that and will be bred because their owner doesnt know any better or doesnt care.

    If you dont know what health and temperament testing is then I get that you wouldn't understand the importance or what breeding for excellence means. I would recommend the FB group 'health tested APBT' (I believe that is the name), the admins are working on articles about known health problems in the breed and how to avoid them.

    I never once said gameness should be bred out, but I can tell you're sensitive and looking for something to get wriled over.
     
  8. oldman

    oldman Little Dog

    Most of the health issues I see today are not in the old blood pit bulls. Much of what I see today is the more modern bloodlines and mixed breed dogs.
    Breeding for excellence has changed quite a bit from what it was in the past to what it is today.
     
  9. Worg

    Worg Big Dog

    Another factor is carrier vs at risk, plenty of dogs are carriers and can pass these things down for offspring to suffer with but dont actually display the illness themself. What I am saying isnt specific to the APBT, it just so happens that a lot of breeders in this breed are behind compared to other working or sporting breeds. These tests were created specifically for better breeding practices to improve the health of ones dogs, breeders were fed up with having dogs die at 7 or 8 years old and hips to give out at 6 years old etc so they used science to help eliminate this issue. Yes breeding for excellence has changed, because we have more options now for better breeding practices.
     
  10. Sagebrush

    Sagebrush Good Dog

    When you breed for performance, the dogs who are affected enough with a physical malady to not be able to perform are quickly eliminated. So a dog carries something? It's not going to bother THAT dog. Carrier status is the best way to deal with some of these devastating illnesses and when the affecteds are quickly eliminated, that is what you've got. And honestly, these guys are NOT going to let some x-ray tell them their dog is defective with hip dysplasia when their dog has no symptoms and is out there tearing it up. But dysplasia bad enough to keep a dog down -- that dog will be eliminated. Maybe that course is good enough when they are performance-tested...

    I wonder if the sled dog people bother to "health test" all their dogs? Or maybe there IS health testing going on all the time....It's a different mindset from what we pet/show/dog sports people do.

    Sometimes I am amazed at all the "health testing" we do on our dogs. Do we really have better DOGS? Or just more impressive-looking pedigrees to flash with an inflated sense of how "good" our dogs are?
     
    Conflictive Nature and AGK like this.
  11. oldman

    oldman Little Dog

    Take a look at the dogs where hip dysplasia is doing the most damage. In some breeds the show people are to blame for it.
    They breed for a trait that will look good in a show even knowing they are weakening the breed over all. Look at the breeds that have trouble walking around the ring. Look at some of the noses on some breeds. That have problems breathing, teeth so bad they have problems eating, and cannot walk around the block.
    Take a real good look at the irish setter, English bulldog, and the german shepherd. Health testing takes a back seat to winning a show. If a certain look happens to be popular the show people will gladly destroy the health of their dog just to get the ribbons.
    Performance dogs have a job to do. Looks do not matter as much as job performance. If a dog has a trait or carries a trait that prevents the dog from performing their job they will not be used for breeding. Bad traits are bred out of performance dogs.
    I knew a man who imported a rotty back when they were becoming popular. He won all kinds of shows when he was young and was a very popular stud. Many of his pups had hips so bad they could not walk before they were a year old. He was bred many times even after the problem was noticed. The man finally had to put him down.
     
  12. Worg

    Worg Big Dog

    Breeding dogs that 'can' work is not the same as breeding for excellence. Most of the sled dog breeders I've spoken to ARE doing xrays, they don't want to spend the time and money on a litter just to have them not make the cut or for their body to fail at 6 or 7 years old. I'm sorry this seems like such a foreign idea to some of you, the research is out there and there is no reason not move forward and advance. I hope that for the sake of the breed you love you will put the time and effort into learning how to advance breeding practices.
     

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