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Kidney Disease

Discussion in 'Health & Nutritional Care' started by Kit, Feb 15, 2017 at 12:32 AM.

  1. Kit

    Kit Good Dog

    We just found out that Rosie is in the very early stages of kidney disease.
    The vet suggested a low protein/low phosphorus diet, and suggested Royal Canin...I don't remember which formula, but it's for early stages, they didn't have any in stock, so I'll get a bag next week.
    Anyway, I know RC isn't the greatest food out there, but I'm having trouble finding others with low protein & phosphorus.
    Any ideas? Suggestion?

    Thanks!
     
  2. leavesofjoy

    leavesofjoy Big Dog

    I'm sorry to hear this, but it's good you caught it early, that's something to be hopeful about!

    Our previous dog had kidney disease, moderately advanced by the time we caught it at 13. I did a lot of research, and did find that phosphorus is an issue, but not protein as much according to more recent research. We didn't end up totally changing his food, but I did sub out home-cooked low phos. meals for half of what we fed him.

    The main thing we did was supplements. We gave him extra omega oils, and an herbal formula I made based on a Chinese one called Rehmannia Six. After I think 4 months on that, his numbers were back to normal and he lived another 3 years, the vet was amazed. I have the formulation recipe in my other computer if you want it, I can dig it out.

    I learned about the formula and other therapies on a Yahoo group:
    https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/K9KIDNEYS/info
    There is a tremendous wealth of knowledge there, and I got so much support and help. I think somewhere in their files there are charts for foods that fit a kidney diet, although we never did find one he liked and we trusted, so that's why we did the half regular food/half cooked.

    Good luck- if I remember anything else, I'll post it.

    -MN
     
    Leslie H and Nat Ursula like this.
  3. Madeleinemom

    Madeleinemom MS Bites, My Dog Doesn't Staff Member Super Moderator

    I am sorry to hear about Rosie but glad you caught it early! It is my understanding as well that the 'low protein diet for elderly or kidney function impaired' dogs has been debunked and - like MN said - the phosphorus is more an issue.

    Not a fan of RC either, but the vet R/X stuff seems to work - we have (and are) using a formula for Trusty Man with good results. I would use for Rosie as a transition food perhaps, until you find other options.
     
    Leslie H and Nat Ursula like this.
  4. Nat Ursula

    Nat Ursula Good Dog Premium Member

    Sorry to hear that.
     
  5. Kit

    Kit Good Dog

    That would be awesome, if it's not too much work. Thank you!
    The more I'm reading and hearing from others, I am finding that low phosphorus is more important that low protein.
    The vet did mention omegas, so I will get some ordered and get her started on that too. I've got a Holistic book for Dogs, so I'll be checking out what it says about kidney issues as well.
    She goes in on the 28th for dental work, want to get that taken care of before anything has a chance to get bad.
    The vet is hoping that since we caught it early, and get started on the diet change, that this is as far as it will go.
     
    Leslie H, Nat Ursula and Capt. Roxy like this.
  6. Kit

    Kit Good Dog

    Yes, I agree, I'm finding phosphorus is the key.
    I will use the RC until I can find something I'm more comfortable with. But, it is a decent start.
     
    Nat Ursula and Madeleinemom like this.
  7. Michele

    Michele Chi Super Dog Staff Member Super Moderator Premium Member

    My dog has been on RC for a long time because he had issues. He does very well on it.
     
  8. leavesofjoy

    leavesofjoy Big Dog

    No problem at all! Here is what I put together (all in pre-made tinctures):
    Rehmannia 5 ml
    Eucommia 5 ml
    Fo-Ti 5ml
    Cornus 3 ml
    Wild yam 3 ml
    Poria 3 ml
    I gave him the same dose as a person, just based on the concentration of the base tinctures. He was further along in the disease, so maybe Rosie could get less?

    Also, these herbs are obscure and hard to find (I'm an herbalist for people, so I have access). If you can't find them to mix your own, lots of people on that Yahoo group had success with pre-made Chinese formulas- "Rehmannia Six" and "Rehmannia Eight", so don't stress out too much with the sourcing. Dragon Herbs is a good clean source for Chinese formulas.

    This page has a good rundown of lots of options:
    http://dogaware.com/health/kidneysupps.html

    The phosphorus issue as I understand it is that usually high protein also means high phos, but not always, so low protein diets do work because of that, but you can also just lower phos. and get good results without causing protein deficiencies. But, nothing wrong with starting with what the vet suggested, that's a great start and an easy thing for you to do so you can research without feeling rushed to change something right away.

    -MN
     
    Leslie H, Madeleinemom and Nat Ursula like this.
  9. Capt. Roxy

    Capt. Roxy Big Dog

    Awww no sorry to hear about Rosie.
    Purina makes one and so does Science Hill but they are pretty much on the same level as Royal Canin.
     
    Nat Ursula likes this.
  10. Kit

    Kit Good Dog

    Thanks everyone.
    I'm going to get her started on the RC for now and keep searching for something better.
    I did find Wysong Synorgon, has anyone used this or looked into it? Good? Bad? Better or worse than RC?
    I'm probably going to order some Rehmannia and get that going, as well as some Omega fish oil.

    Keep the ideas coming!
     
    Nat Ursula and Madeleinemom like this.
  11. Madeleinemom

    Madeleinemom MS Bites, My Dog Doesn't Staff Member Super Moderator

    Generally speaking, Wysong is a brand with a great rep, although we have never used it.

    What I do like about using vet R/X formulas is that - as a consumer - I feel that I have more leverage, i.e., if results are poor, I can point my more-or-less-well-manicured finger at the vet and encourage him/her to debate the merits of the food.
     
    Nat Ursula likes this.
  12. Kit

    Kit Good Dog

    I picked up the RC from the vet today. OUCH! $28 for 6lbs. I could get it thru chewy.com for a bit less but not much.
    I went ahead and ordered some Wysong, both canned and dry that I'll mix.
    I think that's a good start. We've been checking her blood every 3 months, but with such a slight change since last July, the vet said we could go to checking at 6 months. So I think with even just a mild diet change, we should be okay.
    She is still going to do agility, as long as she gets excited to go. We're just going trial by trial for now, I'm sort of thinking of retirement in April, when she's 12, but that's up to her.
     
  13. Leslie H

    Leslie H Good Dog

    I'm glad you caught it early. I agree w/all the advice you've been given.
     
    Nat Ursula likes this.

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