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It Could Soon Be Illegal To Chain/Tether A Dog In Fort Worth

Discussion in 'Breed Specific Legislation' started by Vicki, Jan 15, 2008.

  1. renae_nae

    renae_nae Big Dog

    if you're not...then it's abuse! That is where aggression comes in...because they are being abused!
     
  2. Cynthia

    Cynthia Good Dog

    These dogs are not pack animals. They do not need doggy friends. I socialized mine as pups with other dogs but it came a time where they wanted to kill other dogs. And as a responsible owner I know their temperment and I do not let them interact with other dogs to protect them as well as the other dog.

    Out of the 11 we have only 2 adults get along supervised. And the rest will try and kill each other. Even our 6 month old pup was trying to attack other dogs at 12 weeks old. She tried to go after my 5yr old Neutered dog (he gets along with all puppies). We had a 2 yr old that can not be in a kennel next to another dog without trying to bite it through the fence. Or our neutered foster that will rush a crate with another dog in it and knock it over trying to get at it. All were socialized as pups.

    And I do not need to go to a shelter. I know quite a few people who have up to 30 dogs on chains who are happy, socialized, not human aggressive, not food aggressive. But they are APBT and are dog aggressive. I can not train or love that out of them.
     
  3. simms

    simms Good Dog

    i have the bite stats for the city of FW for the last 3 years that say's otherwise. Infact a dog that is soley behind a fence is more likely to bite than one that is tetherd....This is novel....b/c it can (opprotunity)! Not b/c it is more likely to bite b/c it is tetherd.

    you dont have to tell me to do my research. I beleive in research, FACTS!

    Are you just one of those folks that has bought into the anti tether campaign?
     
  4. fr0gman

    fr0gman Puppy

    I am not exactly sure when I 'bought in". I am pretty sure it was somewhere around 1979, but the exact date escapes me. I will say that I am not a fan of any sort of ban because it only impacts responsible people and those that seek to go against the ban; the same people that the ban is intended to change, continue status quo.

    I do not tether dogs for longer than 1 hour and I FIRMLY believe that doing so for longer is not in the dogs' best interest. You can tether yours until the cows come home. I refuse to do it.

    All dogs are pack animals.

    To borrow from Cesar Millan (like him or not):

    Animal - they are predators and will kill.

    Mammal - fur, warm blood, milk, etc.

    Dog - Domestic dogs inherited a complex social hierarchy and behaviors from their wolf ancestors. Dogs are pack animals with a complex set of behaviors related to determining each dog's position in the social hierarchy... Wikipedia

    Breed - pit, rot, what-have-you.

    Name - fluffy, baby, boo, freckles...

    You can get past most anything in the lower tier of the order. You can change Fluffy's name to Chainsaw and she will eventually accept it. You can get past the breed with training. You can train a Lab to pull a sled and you can train a Husky to hunt birds and you can train a pit bull to accept other dogs.

    When you move higher in the order it becomes more difficult and in some cases impossible because you are working against what Mother Nature designed. Remember that the pit breeds were designed by man and like all things man made it can be overcome.

    You cannot train a mammal to be a fish and you cannot train an animal to be rock. Simple but hopefully you understand my point.

    I will again reference Cesar Millan. Have you seen his show? He has dozens of different dogs living together, many of them pit breeds and many of them from very aggressive backgrounds including fighting. So the idea that it can't be done does not hold water.

    I have 5 dogs: 1 unaltered female pit (2 years), 1 neutered male pit (6 years), 2 pit pups 1 male, 1 female (6 months) and 1 spayed female bassapoo (yes, a Basset/Poodle, don't ask 'cause I don't know). They all live indoors and they all get along just fine. The male gets territorial in his yard, but meets and greets just fine on walks.

    If you think that pits cannot socialize with other dogs maybe that is part of the problem. Do you walk them on a structured walk? If so, do you walk them together or do you keep them apart which in my opinion only add to the chance of them having conflict the next time they meet.

    I subscribe to the theory of "the more the more". What this means is that the more of one thing you do, naturally the more you are inclined to do. Smoking and exercise are good examples. The more you do one thing the easier it is for you to do it longer the next time and more often. For good or for bad, this is how habits are formed. The more you keep your dogs seperate because they do not get along, the more they will not get along and the more you will keep them seperate. See where this is going?

    What would happen if you applied the same theory to helping them get along? The more you focus on them getting along the more they will get along and the less you will keep them seperated, ...

    I am not trying to condemn or change your lifestyle. If you like things the way they are and you feel that your dogs are well-rounded and balanced then by all means do what is working for you. I am just trying to give you a glimpse of what happens in my world in hopes that you might take away something that will help your world.
     
  5. simms

    simms Good Dog


    I never said that you had to tether...LOL. Some animals are not pets and will never be pets. The purpose behind tethering is to limmit the animals ability to wander out side the given peramitor (sp?). Tethering does not abuse animals, ppl do.

    Those that will neglect/abuse thier animal while being tetherd will abuse/neglect while not tethering as well. Laws dont differenciate between those that abuse and those dont. The only thing that a law like this does, is limmit the ability to care for a animal.

    doesn't stop abuse and does not set a higher standard of care.

    My response to this thread is only what you directed at me.

    However I will say that I do not own pits.... I own APBT.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 24, 2009
  6. Miakoda

    Miakoda GRCH Dog

    It takes a LOT to ruin a good dog with a stable temperament. If a dog becomes aggressive because it's on a chain or in a kennel or in your backyard or in your bedroom behind a closed door, then you do not have a good dog with a stable temperament.

    I've seen dogs come out of serious neglect cases where they were left to rot and die and some that were stabbed and beaten and some that were dragged behind their owners vehicles, and yet these dogs were still friendly to humans and most still tried to interact with us by wagging tails and licking.

    I hate the excuses we throw out all because our bleeding hearts refuse to accept that bad dogs with poor temperaments exist. :no2:

    As for abuse and neglect, no inanimate object has the power to do either of those things. A chain cannot refuse to feed and water a dog. A chain cannot refuse to take the dog out for a walk. A chain cannot prevent a dog from seeing the vet.

    Get real, folks. A person who abuses and/or neglects a dog at the end of a chain/tether will do so no matter where that do is contained whether it be a kennl (indoor or outdoor) or even in the home. I've seen plenty of cases where those dogs kept solely in the house were denied daylight, hardly fed, never bathed, groomed, and had nails trimmed, rarely interacted with. The whole argument of "well, if the dog's inside then the owner HAS to play with it and interact with it and take it outside for walks" is just naive or foolish thinking while wearing some rose-colored glasses while viewing our utopian paradise we live in.

    If you are against chaining, then are you against kenneling? What about forcing your poor poochie to stay confined behind a fence? And what about that damed awful tether we all call a "leash"? Oh the inhumanity of it all! :eek:
     
  7. Rits

    Rits Little Dog

    What I was thinking and was going to say while reading this entire thread is right here(what Mia said). Taking away the ability to chain/tether a dog is NOT going to stop the people that abuse dogs and is not going to stop the act of abusing a dog. Guess what's going to happen? The abuse is just going to move from outside to inside. Whether that be in the house or garage...or a shed. And the point with that is, you now will not be able to see these dogs get abused and it's going to be less likely these people will get caught or reported. There are plenty of responsible dog owners that chain/tether their dogs. But, of course, the few bad ones ruin it for everyone.

    These laws are wasting everyone that's involved, their time. In order to stop neglect/abuse....you have to, surprise, crack down on the abusers.

    I, right now, do not have the ability to tether my dog because I live in an apartment. But, you bet your bottom I will tether my dog outside when I move out after this month. Not because I don't love my dog and that I don't care for it. But because I know my dog (a lab mix btw) would far more enjoy being outside for an extended amount of time (not 24 hrs). She would have water, shelter, the ability to come into the garage. I would look out the window, or better yet, go outside to check on her. I also live out in the country, so...fencing 3 acres of land or more, is just not reasonable. My labx is VERY athletic and she would easily clear a 4ft fence even a 6ft fence. Just the other day she cleared a horse stall and didn't even touch it while jumping over it. . And, because she is athletic and I'm human and there are times where I cannot walk her everyday, instead of keeping her cooped up inside, driving herself insane doing laps in my house, I let her outside where she can smell, see, and do all those other things that are natural to her. It's stimulating and once its time for bed, she's out like a light and sleeping peacefully.

    My parents tether their Golden, not by a chain, but by a cable. Only because there's no way she'd be strong enough to break a cable. It's still tethering. Why do they tether? Because she is a country dog, and absolutely loves being outside, watching birds, sniffing horse crap, and enjoying the sun. After they bring her in, she stands at the door and begs to go outside again. She stays out there for atleast 3 hours most of the time. She's not aggressive because of being tethered. My lab isn't aggressive, nor is my 'bull' mix aggressive. They would all absolutely lick you to death on or off the tether.

    Anywho, I just wanted to show an example of why I believe and support others that tether their dogs and prove that there is nothing wrong with tethering. What's wrong are the people that abuse their dogs, period, not the act of tethering.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 24, 2009
  8. blacksmith

    blacksmith Puppy

    what about the fact that dogs have flourished wonderfully for years,decades, centuries etc...being tethered......... the unstable dog is the problem not the chain ......but what about the house dog that is kept in a crate all day while you are at work having to hold its piss and crap in till you return home ?
     
  9. blacksmith

    blacksmith Puppy

    not knocking anyone who crates their dogs just pointing out negative issues can be pointed out for any form of containment ........At the end of the day it is your property and your right to do what you want with your property
     
  10. kcdogblog

    kcdogblog Puppy

    There is a major difference IMO between kenneling, fencing, leashing and tethering.

    The major difference, as far as I can see, is the safety of the animal. In a kennel, the dog is safe from physical harm from another dog or direct contact with an ornery child. Fencing (assuming it is secure and high enough), the same. Leashing, the owner is there to help protect the dog.

    A dog left on a tether without supervision for long periods of time is a sitting duck to be accosted by a bratty child or a stray dog. The dog is then in a siuation where they have to defend themselves because they cannot escape. Which is what leads to the aggression issues.

    This, incidentally, is why I'm not a fan of invisible fences as a primary form of containment.

    The actual act of tethering does not make a dog aggressive....but it is the long-periods of forced self preservation that end up causing aggressive tendencies.

    I wish the people who pushed for anti-tethering ordinances understood that, so these ordinances could be crafted in a way that really had the best interests of the dog and neighborhood children that may wander up to a dog at heart.

    But completely opposing all tethering restrictions, IMO, is short sighted. At some point cities are going to pass legislation that they feel improves over all public safety. And most tethering restrictions would do that. We cannot continue to say "no" to everything. We need to find a way to work with cities for effective legislation or all of our rights will be taken away.
     
  11. CoolHandJean

    CoolHandJean Krypto Super Dog

    Keep in mind this thread isn't should you or should you not tether.

    This thread is should the govt. be allow to make laws that stop you from properly containing your dog, whether that is tethering, kenneling, etc. I don't feel it's the govt.'s place at all. As far as I know, most places already have laws to protect dogs from abuse, and yet dogs are still abused, because they just can't deal with every single situation. So, why adding another law that is near impossible to enforce should be put in place is beyond me, especially since, the people that responsibly chain will comply with the law and stop chaining, but the people the law is supposed to go after will continue their ways.
     
  12. kcdogblog

    kcdogblog Puppy

    Don't get me wrong. As someone who sides very much Libertarian, I'd rather government not get involved in much of anything when it comes to my personal life (and certainly not my healthcare).

    However, the idea that government doesn't have the "right" to tell me how I should contain my dog isn't dealing in reality. Government regulates almost all of my property. My house has to be maintained at a certain minimal level so I don't have codes violations. My lawn has to be mowed before it gets to be 3 feet tall. My car has to meet emissions standards.

    It isn't very realistic, IMO, to say that they can regulate all my other property, but not my dog. And my personal opinion is that we've done ourselves a disservice by claiming they don't have that right because it has made us look uncooperative and unwilling to work with them on solutions to perceived problems.

    And honestly, I think most tethering ordinances are VERY easy to enforce --vs cruelty/neglect. There is always a lot of grey area in cruelty/neglect cases. Good tethering ordinances are very cut and dry (there are, admittedly, some very difficult to enforce versions of tethering ordinances). I just think at some point we're going to have to educate people and governments on the difference between the good and the bad ordinances instead of seeing us an uncooperative and just ignore us.
     
  13. CoolHandJean

    CoolHandJean Krypto Super Dog

    Well, I don't believe the govt. should have a place in saying what I do with my property, either way. So, I guess it goes hand in hand. We can let the grass get as high as we want here. We don't have any codes as far as I know. If we do, then my friend with a bunch of junk cars on his lawn would have surely been in trouble by now. LOL. That is why I like Country living, less "restrictions". I'd never live in a city or town, unless I just had zero other options.

    So, if the govt. can tell us how we must contain our dogs, why not just say that the govt. can tell us which dogs we can and can not own? I mean the govt. believes that "pit bulls" are dangerous, so, for the good of the people, they might believe it is in the best interest of the Country to outlaw "pit bulls".

    Now you might say "well that is different." I disagree. It is an Opinion that tethering is bad, just as it is an Opinion that "pit bulls" are dangerous. Both aren't based on fact, they are just based on opinions and "feelings".
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 24, 2009
  14. fr0gman

    fr0gman Puppy

    You are hypersensitive.
     
  15. simms

    simms Good Dog

    Maybe so LOL. This is a heated topic for me.

    Do you have anti tether laws in your area? If so, How have they impacted your community to date?
     
  16. blacksmith

    blacksmith Puppy

    if you give them a inch they take 12.......they should not determine whether or not i chain my dogs .......As long as my decision does not interfere with anyones life what business is it of anyones
     
  17. simms

    simms Good Dog

    Porve it! I can share stats with you that say otherwise!
     
  18. kcdogblog

    kcdogblog Puppy

    The reality is that they do have that right. Courts have repeatedly determined that they have that ability -- whether I like it or not. And as I noted before, they have that right (in most cities) to have some control over almost all forms of property. We can waive our hands and claim property rights all we want (as we have for 20 years and we continue to lose in court over it) or realize that that is a losing battle, and start providing effective alternatives that we can all live with.

    At this point I would rather work with them to come up with solutions that are more workable vs saying "you can't do that" and have them think me completely incapable of compromise and then doing whatever it is they want -- which is what has been happening.
     
  19. kcdogblog

    kcdogblog Puppy

    I disagree with the first part. I think if you appear to be completely unwilling to compromise on a position, they will see you as stubborn and no longer worth working with and then go out and take their 12 inches. If you can come up with workable solutions that everyone can live with, you may only give up 2 or 3. Stubbornness and being unwilling to work with cities has gotten us nowhere.
     
  20. fr0gman

    fr0gman Puppy

    No, we do not and I am not advocating any new laws. I am saying that I don't tether and I don't think tethering is good for the dog or good for the breed.

    While I may not support tethering, I will fight to the death to protect you right to tie your dog anywhere you please.
     

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