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I have a question about Animal Aggression in the breed.

Discussion in 'Training & Behavior' started by StevenNeill, Dec 19, 2012.

  1. StevenNeill

    StevenNeill Puppy

    I have two pups I just got about a week ago. They are very young. They came from the same litter. Pics are in my album. My question is...since we are raising them together...they are never apart...and we train them together and they came from the same litter...when they get older will they be aggressive towards one another? I know this isna generalized question...that every dog is different and that anyone could only give me a generalized answer but are these dogs loners...or can they coexist without aggression with one another since they are raised together? I do not use any form of negative reinforcement in training...only reward based training.
     
  2. adjecyca

    adjecyca Good Dog

    It's possible they could go there whole lives, and never raise an aggressive lip towards one another, but just because you are raising them together doesn't mean anything.If they are genetically predisposed to animal aggression there is nothing you can do about it. My advise would be to keep them seperated when you are not around to supervise, and keep all high value items away from them when they are together. If they start playing too rough i would separate them for some time out calm down time.I would also advise you to invest in a break stick,
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 19, 2012
  3. StevenNeill

    StevenNeill Puppy

    Good advice on all counts. When I am gone they are in thier crate...as they are still very young they are crated together. When they get too big to be crated together we will separate them in individual crates. They are never left unsupervised outside of their crates. We have begun simple command recognition training but will be doing obedience training as well. Do you have a suggestion on a supplier for break sticks?
     
  4. MJJean

    MJJean GRCH Dog

    Young puppies can and have caused serious harm to each other. Not to mention that crating them together and then changing it to separate crates later could be a problem. Separating them after so much time might lead to a lot of whining and crying until they get used to it. Might as well get another crate now and separate them to save yourself headaches later. Best to begin as you plan to finish, know what I mean?

    Having 4 dogs that do get along I still crate separately when I leave even for a quick trip to the store or to shower. Just because they all get along now doesn't mean that one day there won't be a random fight over some item and I prefer not to take chances.

    My dogs were raised together as I got them about a year apart, so each new pup was raised with the others. They get along fine, but my 2 APBT DO NOT like other dogs AT ALL. Which if fine by me as I don't think thry need other dogs as riends when they have my human family and each other. The lady across the street kept two littermates and they are just turning 7 months old and have had a few fights. She is crating them separately and trying to find a home for one of them as she has 3 dogs other than those 2 and simply cannot handle them all. So, yes, siblings will fight if they are so inclined.
     
  5. StevenNeill

    StevenNeill Puppy

    Thank you for the input. These pups are so young they should not have been weaned...see my intro post for details. They are currently only 6 weeks old so I plan on keeping them together for another 2-3 weeks. When I separate them I will put both crates side by side so they are still together...unless they become aggressive towards one another...in which case I am not sure exactly what I will do as far as keeping both dogs. I am hoping they wont and intend to fully train them to attempt avoiding that altogether...or at least controlling it. As far as the whining...they have already learned that whining gets them nowhere. It rarely occurs any more.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 19, 2012
  6. dalvers63

    dalvers63 Good Dog

    IF one or both of them decide they don't like the other, no amount of training you've done will or can change that fact. It will either happen or it won't no matter what you do. Managing/controlling is possible; just don't set yourself up for failure thinking that you'll be able to stop them from going after each other if that comes to pass. Crate/rotate isn't hard but it does take dedication to make sure dogs that hate each other never get a chance to meet.

    While I'm sure you love both of the pups, if you don't feel you can keep them both if DA to each other happens, then I'd suggest finding a home for one soon instead of waiting until they're older.
     
  7. MJJean

    MJJean GRCH Dog

    You can train, socialize, and love the heck out of those puppies and if either or both is genetically predisposed to DA it won't make a difference and it will mean keeping them separate for their entire lives. Which means you will have to use crate and rotate or some other rotational system to keep them separate while giving each time with the humans. This is a fact of life when you own Pit Bulls.

    If you have any doubts about keeping them both if one or both become dog aggressive then it would be a good idea to rehome one now while it is young and adorable and will have an easier time finding a home.
     
  8. StevenNeill

    StevenNeill Puppy

    Thanx...This is definantlygiving me something to consider. Its something I will have to discuss with my wife. I dont want to get rid of either especially if there is no reason to. But d DA presents itself between them I dont want to rotate either so at this point I want to keep both UNTIL a problem shows up. Right now there is no problem. They sometimes start getting a little rough at playtime but a sharp "NO" stops that quick. I just dont want to split them up unless I have to...but I do want a break stick.
     
  9. Beret

    Beret Bullyflop

    Please keep in mind...

    Often, DA doesn't present itself until maturity. It will be a LOT harder to successfully re-home a 1-2 year old dog than a cute little puppy. And by a lot harder, I mean odds aren't in your dog's favor.

    If you really think you wouldn't be able to handle it, consider re-homing while the puppies are still desirable.
     
  10. MJJean

    MJJean GRCH Dog

    Is there a particular reason you wouldn't be willing to crate and rotate? Frankly, dogs spend most of their time sleeping. I think it's something like 19 hours a day on average that a dog is asleep. So, crating the dogs would mean one gets a nap while one is getting one on one time with the humans and then you switch. No biggie.

    But, yes, if that is something you wouldn't be willing to do should either or both become DA then it is best to rehome one pup now. I realize it would be difficult for you since pups are so damn adorable and we get attached to them so fast, but think what is best for the dogs. Puppies grow astoundingly fast and they could realistically start fighting within the next 6 months to 2 years. Once a Pit Bull is that old it is very hard to find them a home and even more difficult to find a home willing to take in a dog that is not only older but dog aggressive on top of the age. Good permanent homes with people who understand the breed and can manage a DA dog are hard to find.

    Rescues that take Pit Bulls are often full up with waiting lists and a lot won't even take an owner surrender and will only rescue from a shelter. Most shelters are either A) so full they euthanize once or twice a week to make room and B) many won't adopt out a DA dog.

    Roughly translated, this means you either commit to keeping both pups no matter what and are willing to crate and rotatre if it comes to that, you rehome one now while it isn't too difficult..maybe takes a couple weeks to a couple months, or you accept that if one or both develop DA that means you will likely be crating and rotating for months while looking for a good home or dropping it off to a shelter where the odds are it will be euthanized.
     
  11. Bigsambully

    Bigsambully Puppy

    This ^^^^^ dude don't be selfish either accept the dogs for what they are or could become or let one pup go maybe you should have researched a little better before committing to two dogs ???
     
  12. StevenNeill

    StevenNeill Puppy

    Perhaps I should have but now I have the two pups and I am committed to them. I solidified that commitment today by signing a wellness contract with Banfield animal hospital who has always taken care of my dogs. Part of that wellness plan includes nuetering for both pups. They were healthy save for round worm which is being treated. I am making plans to surround my yard with an 8 foot privacy fence and am mapping out an outside kennel. Sufficient for both dogs. I intend to keep them inside unless they become DA in which case they will be kennelled outside. I have begun training but have already contacted an advanc d behavioral trainer and settled on a cost for both dogs. I understand the commitment. As much as they hate to be separated I have a hard time seeing them becoming aggressive with each other but I understand it can happen and if so I will be prepared for it. I will personally lay the concrete for the kennel and seal it as well as do the cinderblock work and I will personally build the fence for them.
     
  13. _unoriginal

    _unoriginal Cow Dog

    I commend you for taking the steps that you are taking to ensure your dogs always have a future with you.. However I just want a little clarification about the kennel that you're planning on setting up outside. It will be 2 separate kennels correct? Obviously you can't put them in the same one. And along that line as well, the kennels shouldn't be butted up against one another or in the event of aggression or anything similar, you'll likely have an issue of fence fighting which can cause injury just the same as fighting without a barrier.
     
  14. LovePup

    LovePup Good Dog

    I take it you took a brother and a sister? (or two brothers or two sisters)

    First, since you are signed up with Bandfield, please get them S/N asap. This will help a little. But as stated above, if your dogs do indeed develop animal aggression there is nothing you really can do except manage.
     
  15. StevenNeill

    StevenNeill Puppy

    LovePup...they are brothers. Part of thier wellness plan with bandfield includes nuetering but that wont be done until they are 16 weeks. They are only 6 weeks right now. @ Unoriginal...I intend t o lay a slab 20 feet long and about 8 feet wide. Then I will build 3 cinderblock rooms 4 feet wide and roughly 6 1/2 feet wide. Those three kennels will be separated by cinderblock walls that extend 8 feet high and the fifteen feet in "yard" space so no dog will be able to see a dog in the next kennel. The whole thing will then be fenced in and roofed in with chain link. Hope that explains it.
     
  16. _unoriginal

    _unoriginal Cow Dog

    I must admit, that sounds pretty damn nice! I want to see pics when this is done. :sonn_u11:
     
  17. StevenNeill

    StevenNeill Puppy

    Not sure how long it will take me to build. Im certainly not rich... but I will get it done. When I do I will post pics.
     
  18. _unoriginal

    _unoriginal Cow Dog

    Well cinderblocks are a dime a dozen around here. Folks just have tons left over from whatever construction or landscaping project and get rid of them to save their life. Damn near impossible to give them away half the time, so that's a pretty nice and cheap idea to keep your dogs secure.

    Although having said that, once you've figured out how to manage 1 DA dog (I have one) then it's relatively simple when you find your rhythm. You won't always have to be having dogs outside. I rotate mine inside when I don't feel like supervising or when they're feeling saucy and not friendly toward one another.

    Just, ya know, keep your options open in the future.
     
  19. StevenNeill

    StevenNeill Puppy

    Thanx Unoriginal. Not so easy to get cinderblock here in Texas. Maybe I should hook up the trailer and make a trip up there. The kennel has been in my mind for a while this just gives me a reason to finally do it. I intend to train them as much as possible so as to control whatever negative traits might show up. But I am keeping options open. They are part of my family and they wont be outside alone n the cold.
     
  20. _unoriginal

    _unoriginal Cow Dog

    No no I didn't mean it like that. Dogs are far more resilient than people give them credit for. I don't care where you keep your dogs as long as they are trained and healthy. My dogs growing up were kept outside so there's nothing wrong with it. I only mentioned it because you had said that you're building kennels for if they become DA. I was just pointing out that you don't need outdoor kennels to manage DA dogs. Hell, I don't even have a yard and I do it just fine.
     

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