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Hello to everyone from Finland!

Discussion in 'Introductions' started by FinPit, Mar 2, 2018.

  1. Mister

    Mister Little Dog

    The legality of the breed doesn’t concern apbt owners here or they wouldn’t ave em, being infiltrated and exposed by the media and thus lied about does worry them. Besides except for the UK, wherever the apbt is banned or restricted so is the Amstaff.
    Amstaffs are a distant 3rd behind the apbt & sbt in popularity in Europe. They may even 4th behind the bully’s now. The best breeders here don’t really do websites, 1 or 2 do but I don’t class em as the best.
    Crating dogs is just a kennelling method, I use it for my house dogs. As long as dogs are clean, exercised and looked after I don’t see the problem. Ive never yet seen a looked after crated dog develop any behaviour issues yet have sadly known quite a few kept in kennel runs develop some serious mental issues/problems. Sad thing is the humaniacs say it’s chaining or other methods that always cause these problems never the kennel runs such as they use, which cause the most in dogs.
    You might like to go and nose someone else’s dogs, here it just wouldn’t happen.
  2. Sagebrush

    Sagebrush Good Dog

    Obviously who an owner allows on his property is his business and ANY kenneling method can be good or can be abused. In the same way, a potential buyer can decide what he is comfortable with. I have been very surprised at the differences between what is depicted on a website and what is reality - in some, not all instances. I have learned to be wary, just as others have learned to be wary.
    I have some registration numbers for ASTs in France and will find and post them. They are quite amazing compared to USA.
    Nat Ursula likes this.
  3. Mister

    Mister Little Dog

    I’m not interested in numbers for Amstaffs in France. Because they can never be near accurate cos of the large amount of apbt’s that have Amstaff reg throughout Europe. And cos the thread is about OP asking about AB’s and apbt’s.
  4. Sagebrush

    Sagebrush Good Dog

    Yes it’s very sad that idiots feel the need to register their APBTs as Am Stafs.I am glad to hear APBTs are legal in Finland. I would certainly be wary of purchasing an APBT from anyone who owns and breeds where they are illegal, but that’s me. Sorry about the off topic about AST numbers in France. There are many thousands registered each year there and that’s just the beginning as they are extremely popular in other countries as well. While some of those ARE APBTs, the actual AM Stafs registered still far outnumber the less than 1000 registered in USA a couple of years ago( and never more than 1600 in a single year since 1936) registered in USA last year.
    I just find that kind of popularity sad for ASTs and APBTs.
  5. FinPit

    FinPit Puppy

    Our apartment is about 549 sq ft, with balcony. It's not a mansion, but neither the smallest apartment. There's also nature and even a preservation area just a short walk from here. Residence type is of course one of the aspects to take in consider when choosing a breed.

    There are many questions I'd like to ask about APBTs, but many of my questions are considered as highly explosive issues. One thing is for sure: I'm not or I'll never be interested about dog fighting. There's a scene in the earlier mentioned BBC document where one of the Finnish dogfight participant electrocutes loser dog. I would never buy any living animal from a person who supports this kind of "sport". That would be an absolute deal breaker for me.

    Which brings me to one of my questions. Do you believe gameness is a typical character only for an APBT? I've read different reviews and descriptions about gameness. Some of them arguing it's not possible to maintain gameness in the breed without dogfights. Then again, I've also found information about breeders who test their dogs with hog hunting, for example. As I earlier mentioned, I'm very interested about weight pulling and similar kind of sports. But I'd also like to test my future dog in blood tracking, since hunting is one of our family's hobby. There are very strict legislations for hunting dogs and hunting styles in Finland. For example, I couldn't use my APBT or AB for hog hunting or for any big game. Our breeds for big game hunting don't attack game, but instead they distract them and hold them still for a hunter. But it could be possible to use APBT for raccoon dogs, at least in the theory.

    There are also different rumors about those legendary APBTs in the breed history, and one can't tell are there any truth in them. I keep constantly come across with the claim that Chinaman was a man biter. But people also claim that in history, every man biters were automatically eliminated.

    I hope I didn't insult anyone of you with my questions. But these are huge questions for me to take in consider.
  6. Sagebrush

    Sagebrush Good Dog

    Yes, it sure is. And it is for the seller as well, as he considers what is best for his puppy/dog. That is not very much space for either breed. They can both be good dogs for what you want -- size would be the biggest difference and perhaps activity level, but that can be individual too.

    I don't think you have to worry about getting involved with dog fighters. It's a pretty closed world. Nothing wrong with knowing and understanding where the breed came from though.

    When one talks about gameness for APBTs, it's gameness for the pit. You'll get different opinions on it, but I believe breeds can have different kinds/levels of gameness, depending on it's historical use. If one wants to maintain PIT gameness, there is only one way to do that. There are other ways to maintain confidence, determination, agility, endurance, etc ,in the breed (and hog hunting can do that) BUT all those are not "gameness" (for the APBT). That doesn't make lesser the APBT that shows his ability/bravery in other endeavors.

    Find someone that is doing those activities with APBTs or American Bulldogs and go see them. I do have to say though, that if someone is breeding a good APBT with the physical ability and temperament the breed is known for, that THAT goes a long way towards having a dog that can be trained up to do most anything.

    Again, you'll hear different stories about these dogs. But, it doesn't make sense that someone that fought dogs would eliminate a game winner, even if it WAS a man-biter.
  7. pitbulldogs

    pitbulldogs OHMUHGERD Staff Member Administrator

    What do you mean it doesn't make sense? If the dog was known to bite people then the handlers were taking a serious risk handling a man biter in a box just inches away from it. It makes perfect sense even though several were rumored to be man biters and were still bred.
  8. Sagebrush

    Sagebrush Good Dog

    My statement was poorly worded -- that a game man-biter would be BRED I think was an easier decision that actually getting in the pit with one. Point being, the practice many of us learned over the years about man-biters never being tolerated in any way is probably not wholly true. And that does make sense when you look at the entirety of the practice of organized dog-fighting.
    pitbulldogs likes this.
  9. ETRaven2

    ETRaven2 Big Dog

    Just a question PBD, do you think some of the man biters were similar to my dog Raven? I know that dog would have never in a thousand, million years bite me, but another handler? game on. Not that I would ever have pitted Ray, ever, as it is illegal, and I don't have the stomach for it, but if I did, I could easily see her redirecting on a handler that did not have much experience with her. If I was a dogman (woman (?)) and she wasn't spayed --- so this is a huge hypothetical, I would've bred that dog in a heartbeat based on drive, tenacity, agility, smarts and wind alone (can't speak to finish, of course). But technically, she was a man biter. Now, my breeding her may (would have, to keep it real) have been biased because I loved the dog so damn much that I would've looked past the HA.
    pitbulldogs likes this.
  10. pitbulldogs

    pitbulldogs OHMUHGERD Staff Member Administrator

    It's hard to say really, so many variables involved. I do believe some kept them around though and even bred them.
    ETRaven2 likes this.
  11. FinPit

    FinPit Puppy

    So I ended up for going to introduce myself with ABs. Most of the Finnish ABs are hybrid type between the Scott and Johnson type, but they are more like Scott / standard / performance type with their appearance. I'm not a fan of very wrinkly and flat face without a proper nose neither overly heavy dogs with weak structure. Fortunately, there's not so much any extreme bully type ABs in here. And yes, I found my perfect puppy! I would have post a picture of him, but at first I should have been solve how to do it. So maby later. I don't fell in love with every puppy I see, although I adore them. But this one was different. He was very high-drive, yet able to calm down and very humble towards human. In the same time he is very stubborn and don't give up easily. I also liked his parents temperament and behavior very much. His breeders are active with one of the Finnish working dog and weight pulling association, so I will receive proper information and guidance right from the beginning. I couldn't be happier, but I will continue to follow APBTs. I'd love to see an APBT at real work in one day.
    Eden86, pitbulldogs and Michele like this.

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