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Gamebred Guardian?

Discussion in 'Today's APBT' started by EDOGZ818, May 21, 2008.

  1. myo

    myo Puppy

    I don't think a pit bull gurading his property would be a fualt, but with the reputation the APBT has gained over recent years a lot of people have tried to breed any kind of guarding instincts out of them, making it a fault in those peoples eyes.
  2. running with bulls

    running with bulls Little Dog

    Lol!! NO!
    One of the guys at the Schutzhund club I go to was like, 'Wow you have a pit bull? You should bring him to do some bite work sometime!' My jaw dropped to the floor! "Umm....NO!!"
  3. barackpit8

    barackpit8 Puppy

    So should a properly bred APBT be professionally trained for protection work or not? A non HA dog with the proper APBT temperment should be the perfect canidate for this type of work. I know that APBT's were not bred for protection, I know about public perception. But in my opinion a APBT with the proper APBT temperment is the perfect working dog.
  4. Jelet

    Jelet Banned

    i say no. The pit may react to false alarms(bite people who its not supposed to bite by mistake) .

    It will be confused in the head at times.. ~ probably not identifying a threat properly/stranger

    just my opinion.

    short answer - no.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 26, 2009
  5. nc_pitbullmommy

    nc_pitbullmommy Good Dog

    Second that.
    Human aggression and American pit bull terrier should not be in the same sentence. These dogs are to strong and to powerful to be anything but the loyal, sweet human loving dogs they are.
    I don't even like the idea of American pit bull terriers being used in Schutzhund. while dog people understand the training and commitment needed for this sport the general public just sees "attack dogs".
  6. ganja

    ganja Good Dog

    there are more powerfull breeds than the APBT out there...

    jetlet, why would your APBT be confused, or bite for the wrong reasons but not a GSD? that's ridiculous...
  7. nc_pitbullmommy

    nc_pitbullmommy Good Dog

    That's true but most are confused for Pit Bulls by JQP.
    When that horrible attack happened in San Fransisco with the two Presas they were labeled as "Pit Bulls" until the truth about their breed was found out.....
  8. TheVictor22

    TheVictor22 Little Dog

    It's been a while sence I've posted......

    This is a good thread...... Ok I think the APBT will excell at any and every task given..... However the thought of a HA APBT bothers me. Don't think they should be bred for the HA. That would in my opinion would be a mistake. I think our dogs ar more then smart enough to know when to go to work. With out being HA. Duchess has proven that in the past and she has not been traind for protection work. The dogs smarts and judgment will be more then enough. With that being said.... the whole time I was trying to type my opinion of our hypothetical APBT. I couldn't help but think of situation our dogs are currently in. It is hard to answer that question. Good thread.

  9. DeeDirtyDawg

    DeeDirtyDawg Good Dog

    HA and guardian don't work together very well. A guardian should be stable, and understand he has a JOB for which he must be trained.
    HA dogs are not qualified as guardians.
    Also, HA and game bred should be mutually exclusive terms. Game bred dogs should only be DA.

    I euthed the hypothetical dog too. Liability, not guard dog.
  10. retro

    retro Little Dog

    totally disagree. if i have a dog that's only purpose is to guard/protect, then i want a lot of good, genetic, forward aggression in that dog - otherwise, why do i have it?
  11. DeeDirtyDawg

    DeeDirtyDawg Good Dog

    because guarding isn't based on aggression.
    it's based on drive and the desire/ability to work.

    and to whoever asked why a HA pit bull guarding his property would be considered a fault.... READ THE ACTUAL BREED STANDARD!!!
    and i quote- straight from the UKC pit bull terrier standard:


    • Unilateral or bilateral cryptorchid. Viciousness or extreme shyness. Unilateral or bilateral deafness. Long coat. Bobbed tail. Albinism. Merle."
  12. retro

    retro Little Dog

    mmm - still disagree. sport is based on drive and biddability - the real deal,in the trenches, type of work calls for a different type of animal.

    personally, i think that very few pitbulls would/should be suited for that kind of work, and if they are, they may be good guardians, but i don't think they're very good pitbulls. make sense?
  13. Jim

    Jim Good Dog

    I think that even if it was used to guard someplace that all you have to do is walk up with a dog and he is going to go for that so you have by-passed security very easily. Or take up a bitch in heat.

    I just don't think it is a good idea and don't feel they would do well especially on their own and they would have to be almost surely.
  14. hustler10135

    hustler10135 Puppy

    please dont
  15. DeeDirtyDawg

    DeeDirtyDawg Good Dog

    The best guard dogs I've had were people friendly when they weren't working... they know the difference. A HA dog doesn't have a difference, and is unpredictable, even when the handler is present. Its just a dumb situaqtion to be in the first place.
    And who should breed these faulty pit bulls?? Oh, and I suppose they should weigh 150 lb s too, right??
  16. Tiffseagles

    Tiffseagles GRCH Dog Premium Member

    Exactly. HA dogs are unpredictable. They should not be used in guard/protection work EVER.

    My uncle grew up with guard/protection dogs. His GSD was trained to attack on command and had a release command (his dad was on the police force and used this dog at work). The dog would come home and play with the kids - he was the family pet. Luke, his GSD, would go everywhere off-leash (this was decades ago) and never had any problems with anyone. If he was HA, they wouldn't have been able to do this without someone getting seriously hurt.

    HA dogs should be euthanized in most cases as they are liabilities and most people do not know how to handle a truely HA dog. In fact, most people have never met a truely HA dog. Barking or growling at a trespasser on property is not HA, it's guarding. Defending one's owner when they are being attacked is not HA, it's protection.

    It's when a dog responds with aggression towards people in the face of an imagined threat that you have a truely HA dog. Triggers could be as simple as someone looking at your dog, waving hello or shaking your hand. These things are harmless yet some dogs will think they are threats and respond with aggression. This is how the mind of a truely HA dog works - innocent actions are seen as immediate threats that require an aggressive response from the dog.

    I know that I can't and wouldn't ever keep a HA dog. I do not feel comfortable doing so. However, I am mroe than comfortable living with a guard/protection dog. Actually, I hope I can get involved in PP work when I'm done school (not with APBTs).

    As far as APBTs being used as protection/guard dogs if not for BSL, I would still say no. One of the things that attracts me to this breed is their tendency to think everyone is a friend and not stop to size up a person/situation. If I want that, I'll get a guardian breed.
  17. DeeDirtyDawg

    DeeDirtyDawg Good Dog

    Kudos, tiff. I'm not gonna quote because I'm using my phone and can't cut and paste, but what attracts you about the breed is a major trait.
    Anyone who wants a guard dog should choose a breed more suited- other breeds are less friendly by nature- why screw up this breed???
  18. APBTlover09

    APBTlover09 GRCH Dog

    my answer is NO, NO and NO.

    ---------- Post added at 08:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:23 PM ----------

    [FONT=Tw Cen MT,Tw Cen MT][FONT=Tw Cen MT,Tw Cen MT]The temperament correct Pit Bull….

    ….towards people:
    Is a friendly, happy, outgoing dog, never shy or fearful. Is a dog that
    demonstrates mental soundness (no growling, snapping, biting, aggressing, or fearful behavior, etc.) at all times, even under stressful circumstances (such as while under veterinary examination, when injured, during visits to new locations/environments, while meeting new and different types of people, etc.). Is accepting of and friendly towards all adults and children inside and outside the home. Greets new people as if they were long lost friends.
    ….Is easy to handle, allows and even enjoys extensive touch and examination; is biddable and deferential, and even submissive; seeks out human attention, and presents good eye contact with a soft gaze. Is willing to connect with people during points of high arousal/stress (never redirecting aggression towards people), is safely handled during points of high arousal/stress, and lowers level of arousal quickly upon being removed from a stressful or exciting situation. Is accepting of reasonable confinement such as is necessary during kenneling at shelters; adjusts to new settings easily.
    ….Is never wary of strangers; never snaps or growls at adults or children, nor is aggressive in any way towards adults or children; does not demonstrate predatory behavior such as stalking, staring down, or aggressive chasing of people/children. Is not a guardian or protection breed, and does not demonstrate "protective" behaviors such as growling/snapping/aggressing at people welcomed into the home, nor wariness of strangers, lunging towards strangers, etc.
    Key Points: The Pit Bull is a friendly, stable dog that in essence "loves everyone". It is never shy or fearful. Aggression towards humans (adults or children) is never acceptable, and the Pit Bull should demonstrate soundness in temperament regardless of circumstances or environment. The Pit Bull is not a guard or protection breed and should never act as such, although the breed has been known to come to the aid of its humans only under real and true (never perceived or misinterpreted) threat.

    ---------- Post added at 08:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:28 PM ----------

    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
  19. adjecyca

    adjecyca Good Dog

    No, i don't expect my animals to protect me.
  20. My opinion is that..... a APBT can do almost anything asked of it, it's just not a good idea. A breed as misunderstood as ours just shouldn't be used for agressive work. The general public just wouldn't know the difference between aggression and trained behavior. Those uninformed narrow-minded people begin to whisper stuff like, "vicious killer","turn on his owner", and "timebomb"....fueling the negative attitudes and fears. These days, we need positive canine ambassadors!

    Plus you'd be combining two traits that shouldn't be paired together. possessiveness/protection is a great thing in a dog, but not HA too. Plus, there's too many variables, a dog can't know all the "when" and "when not to's".
    Guard dogs for the most part are never HA, they are trained by manipulating natural instinct. That's why Shepherds are so great at it,the herding instinct is redirected. But aggression isn't part of the equation, the flash shown by a guard dog is just a means to an end.

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