English Bull Dogs

[adjecyca]

The web page wont let me post the pics but a very cool page http://www.messybeast.com/history/bulldogs.htm

 

[PocketPal]

This was in the NY Times back in 2011
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2011/11/22/magazine/mag-27bulldog-uga/mag-27bulldog-uga-articleInline.jpg
Can the Bulldog Be Saved? - NYTimes.com

 

[PocketPal]

Here's my breeder's winning puppy bitch. Bred for health and conformation.

 

[adjecyca]

Here's my breeder's winning puppy bitch. Bred for health and conformation.

I don't want to seem rude here, but breeding for health? the dog barely has a snout?

 

[_unoriginal]

Maybe he was being sarcastic. At least I'd hope so.

The modern Olde English Bulldogge is kinda like what the English Bulldog used to be.

 

[PocketPal]

Not being sarcastic if that was referred to me. The dog is faced away from the camera if you had made a proper observation. The pict is not the best shot. ...and yes, that's what the conformation calls for "The distance from bottom of stop, between the eyes, to the tip of nose should be as short as possible and not exceed the length from the tip of nose to the edge of underlip."

 

[kayla baxter]

This is a customer's dog. He actually has a waist and can run and be a normal dog.

 

[Poisoned]

What the conformation for dog shows calls for, and what is ethical are not always one in the same.

 

[adjecyca]

Not being sarcastic if that was referred to me. The dog is faced away from the camera if you had made a proper observation. The pict is not the best shot. ...and yes, that's what the conformation calls for "The distance from bottom of stop, between the eyes, to the tip of nose should be as short as possible and not exceed the length from the tip of nose to the edge of underlip."

I think that is one of the main problems with the breed, i agree with what Poisoned said, if one were breeding for the BEST HEALTH for the English bull dog, they wouldn't be breeding them with such short snouts

 

[CrazyK9]

I say the Bulldog goes away and we stick with OEBs.

Actually I like Renascence Bulldogs better

 

[PocketPal]

[FONT=&quot]If it was 12-15 yrs ago, i would seriously have considered the RB (which i doubt existed back then...correct me if i'm wrong). In all honesty, i was just getting into APBT's at the time when i saw a pickup truck load of American Bulldogs that peaked my interests in the smush face. i think i hailed the guy down and asked and it was my first intro to AB. As for the RB, the romanticized idea that if the Romans had a bulldogge in their time...this would be it. Of course, history states the existence of mastiff like molossers that may have ruled with the Roman soldiers. But the idea of a bulldog in ancient Roman time just cant' be confirmed.

[/FONT]

 

[PocketPal]

@adjecyca … As for the problem with the breed (EB) is really in the hands of us people. It's obviously a perception problem that has been passed along it's conformation description. The conformation goes as far as to describe "the face of the dog."

I think it's very important that people like adjecyca remind us that these are dogs with snouts. Nevertheless, the perception is very hard thing to manage. Believe me you, I'm involved in this a lot deeper than words can say. It takes a lot to change that perception..inside the show ring and outside of the ring. Just as well, it takes a lot to understand the changes needed inside where it can’t be seen or perceived until the dog is end stage. So first and foremost, we have to provide these dogs with proper genes to avoid the health problems (I believe UGA VII died at the age of 4 of massive heart failure and UGA V111 was only 17 months from lymphoma, both dogs being champions!) So these things don’t even come close to being a factor for the judges in the show ring.

Let's start with this lil fact...I'm not a breeder, nor do i want to be...but I may have to be co-owner of my future dog and if all goes well I may have a contractual obligation; if so, it'll be paid by my breeder. I'm also only interested in a male show pup, so that is my extent of obligation to the betterment of the breed. As for my breeder…I’ll end with this story. It was Memorial Day weekend in a city of more than 9 million and I had just made my decision to go forward with this breed after getting encouragement from my breeder (this decision is 15 yrs in the making.) I was walking along the shoreline of a very popular part of the city that was jammed pack with visitors from around the world. I spot a beautiful piebald bulldog, albeit a little leggy. Upon a closer inspection this dog looked like a miniature American Bulldog, extremely fit but at less than 45lb at 6-7 months of age. As I spoke to his proud owners, I find out they sought out my breeder and was extremely happy with the decision of their dog. This story is no where as detailed as I would like it to be, but in the interest of keeping it short…I had full confident going forward with my breeder (if and when I find the picture of this dog, I’ll post it). Suffice it to say…I’m going forward into this breed with a band of lawyers, influential people in the kennel club, the full backing of three local chapters of the breed’s club and of course some really good (great) vets. The people involved are not taking this lightly and the reason you haven’t seen or heard of these improvements is that they don’t want to be weighed down by the frivolous demands of those less interested with the health of this breed. And it is closely watched due to the fact that the Bulldog had it’s Best of Breed titled stripped at the Crufts 2012 due to failing the vet check at the show.

 

[slobberdoc]

These dogs make me cringe. I see English Bulldogs, poorly bred OEB's, and Frenchies at the vet clinic all the time for every health issue you could possibly imagine...eye issues, skin, joint problems, breathing problems, soft palate, luxating patellas, hip problems, AI's, not to mention C-sections to name a few. I just don't think this type of dog should even exist. Their only redeeming feature is their temperament. People need to breed for dogs that actually resemble dogs. Dogs that can't breathe or reproduce normally, that is nature's way of saying they shouldn't exist. Don't get me wrong they are great dogs, but breeders have completely destroyed their structure, sacrificing any shred of healthiness for looks...

 

[Poisoned]

I feel terrible for them, as a whole. Every dog should have the ability to act like a dog, to be in weather over 80* without fear of DYING if they play, to run and hike and breath. It makes me very sad, I'm no less upset by the best looking English Bulldog than I am most "Exotic" Bullies.

Not fair to the animals. It's human selfishness at it's best.

 

[CrazyK9]

Yeah there are a lot of OEBs that aren't even a step up from Bulldogs like they are supposed to be :/

I like the alternative bulldog movement but it seems that not enough are actually getting to the core problem by health testing.

 

[Beret]

I feel terrible for them, as a whole. Every dog should have the ability to act like a dog, to be in weather over 80* without fear of DYING if they play, to run and hike and breath. It makes me very sad, I'm no less upset by the best looking English Bulldog than I am most "Exotic" Bullies.

Not fair to the animals. It's human selfishness at it's best.

Ding ding ding!

 

[CrazyK9]

I'd much rather have this
[video=youtube_share;DrqUYXOoHls]http://youtu.be/DrqUYXOoHls[/video]

Than this :/
[video=youtube_share;kvWp2Y2kGxw]http://youtu.be/kvWp2Y2kGxw[/video]

 

[Lee D]

Dogs that can't breathe or reproduce normally, that is nature's way of saying they shouldn't exist.

that pretty much sums up my feelings on the breed in one sentence.

 

[lizzie13]

@adjecyca … As for the problem with the breed (EB) is really in the hands of us people. It's obviously a perception problem that has been passed along it's conformation description. The conformation goes as far as to describe "the face of the dog."

I think it's very important that people like adjecyca remind us that these are dogs with snouts. Nevertheless, the perception is very hard thing to manage. Believe me you, I'm involved in this a lot deeper than words can say. It takes a lot to change that perception..inside the show ring and outside of the ring. Just as well, it takes a lot to understand the changes needed inside where it can’t be seen or perceived until the dog is end stage. So first and foremost, we have to provide these dogs with proper genes to avoid the health problems (I believe UGA VII died at the age of 4 of massive heart failure and UGA V111 was only 17 months from lymphoma, both dogs being champions!) So these things don’t even come close to being a factor for the judges in the show ring.

Let's start with this lil fact...I'm not a breeder, nor do i want to be...but I may have to be co-owner of my future dog and if all goes well I may have a contractual obligation; if so, it'll be paid by my breeder. I'm also only interested in a male show pup, so that is my extent of obligation to the betterment of the breed. As for my breeder…I’ll end with this story. It was Memorial Day weekend in a city of more than 9 million and I had just made my decision to go forward with this breed after getting encouragement from my breeder (this decision is 15 yrs in the making.) I was walking along the shoreline of a very popular part of the city that was jammed pack with visitors from around the world. I spot a beautiful piebald bulldog, albeit a little leggy. Upon a closer inspection this dog looked like a miniature American Bulldog, extremely fit but at less than 45lb at 6-7 months of age. As I spoke to his proud owners, I find out they sought out my breeder and was extremely happy with the decision of their dog. This story is no where as detailed as I would like it to be, but in the interest of keeping it short…I had full confident going forward with my breeder (if and when I find the picture of this dog, I’ll post it). Suffice it to say…I’m going forward into this breed with a band of lawyers, influential people in the kennel club, the full backing of three local chapters of the breed’s club and of course some really good (great) vets. The people involved are not taking this lightly and the reason you haven’t seen or heard of these improvements is that they don’t want to be weighed down by the frivolous demands of those less interested with the health of this breed. And it is closely watched due to the fact that the Bulldog had it’s Best of Breed titled stripped at the Crufts 2012 due to failing the vet check at the show.

say what?

 

[PocketPal]

what?