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Discussion in 'Dog Debates' started by Rainmaker, May 20, 2010.

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  1. ccourtcleve

    ccourtcleve Little Dog

    LMAO @ shakaz. To Rainmaker, look, this is the internet, and I am in the US. I am not a dog fighter and I have never met a dog fighter ever. Please read disclaimer.

    However, JUST because someone 3 dogs doesn't mean it is the right thing to do, not does it mean it is the most effective at getting the job done. There are different schools of thought in the sport, and in general many of the respectable doggers who have had success do NOT do that. If you are in a country where dog fighting is legal, and it improves your dogs then you should do it, no one should be able to tell you any differently. I can't really understand the logic in what you are saying, but that doesn't mean it doesn't work for you in your country.
  2. Rainmaker

    Rainmaker Banned

    The problem is.. none of the dogs we roll can take him to distance. We are matching him in a very well-known kennel who is competing in international convention. We can't tolerate the "what if's" in the equation. We need to see if he can take the heat and get a glimpse of his wind and gameness.
  3. ShakaZ

    ShakaZ Good Dog

    Then hook him and let time tell. A lot of dogs from the past still have question marks to this day because no dog could go the distance with them
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 3, 2010
  4. Lee D

    Lee D Good Dog

    i say if he can take it all and still dish it out, do what you gotta. some are that damn hard on others you do need to two dog em to really see what theyre made of, as long as you aint takin too much outta the tank. some would wreck a whole yard if you let em...now wheres that disclaimer? im speaking strictly from old stories ive read
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 3, 2010
  5. ShakaZ

    ShakaZ Good Dog

    We all are Lee... Well at least us that are in the US.

    ---------- Post added at 04:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:22 PM ----------

    I am not a dog fighter... I have one pet and she's so fat she doesn't have a waistline and her neck melts into her shoulders.
  6. Lee D

    Lee D Good Dog

    yep, i just like to remind the "guests" that once in awhile:D
  7. Rainmaker

    Rainmaker Banned

    Yea he is actually open but no takers from this recent convention. We only got 1 dog hook for 35.5lbs. He don't have that much ability compared to the 30.5lbs dog I've mentioned but his gameness is still unquestioned. Actually we roll this 30.5lbs dog to this 35.5lbs dog once for 10mins. For 10mins this 30.5lbs dominate the other dog. But the gameness of this 35.5lbs I think would be his arsenal. So his keep concentrate is on wind since I know going distance would be his game.

    Hope we can answer that. That would be truly a great sight. But past is past. I believe we got better conditioning and the big plus are the supplements. There are lot of good variety of roids out there. With the right dosage and administration, it would be very much helpful. One of my respected member here, clueless can attest to that. Since I know he is the only one in my book that I can totally agree with in regards of dog-fighting because he got what most people here don't have.. which is experience.
  8. ShakaZ

    ShakaZ Good Dog

    Better him than me, bud. I don't want the experience. I agree with you concentrating on the 35.5 lbs wind, that sounds like a good strategy, when it comes to juice though, I know it used to be used but I would've been against it for the same reason it's not used in any other sports.
  9. Rainmaker

    Rainmaker Banned

    That's what I said on the first post.. you can do that but with extra care. You don't want to get a full damage to a prospect of course. Like if you see he got bitten hard and still manage to take it? Break ASAP. You've seen what you wanna see.. no need to prolong the test.

    Sorry guys, if I give alot of information. I work in an IT industry and my office computer got web filtering. So when I see a pitbull forum allowed. I hastily participate on this forums when I'm bored. That's why if I talk about dogfighting I always say.. I'm not from US as a disclaimer. It just sometimes when people talk here about dogfighting and I feel I need to add something to clarify on that, I can't stop myself.
  10. ShakaZ

    ShakaZ Good Dog

    And we clarify that we don't condone or take part in dogfighting. We are not dog fighters because it's illegal and a felony as of 1976 and all the rest of it.

    ---------- Post added at 04:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:45 PM ----------

    That makes sense to me.
  11. Rainmaker

    Rainmaker Banned

    It's not used on a legal sport, because what it does is pretty evident boost you up pushing you to the limits or above. which is pretty much depriving the concept of the sport which is natural strength. But for an illegal sport? All resources is actually out in the open. You can go natural, but you would see the difference in the []. Even in cockfighting, roids is widely used.

    Kinda off topic but just for added information. For me steroids are like pitbull which got a bad rep because of bad media. Testosterone replacement for men with low testosterone levels has been available since the 1930s. Low levels of testosterone in the blood may indicate the need for testosterone replacement, especially if there is decreased libido, or impotence. Replacement may also improve general sense of well-being and physical stamina. So medically it's safe provided you maintain it into some levels and proper cycle. All bodybuilders who use it on this board can attest to that. It's the abuse that kills.. like anything else.
  12. Lee D

    Lee D Good Dog

    sorry, i didnt really read all the thread, it got so muddied i quit paying attention LOL
  13. RealDawgs

    RealDawgs Big Dog

    Well said Lee, in terms of the steroids. Many notable dogmen of yesteryear, such as Bobby Hall, utilized roids in his dogs. I'll also agree that abusing anything is bad. Hell, if you over condition a dog or if you roll him into too many dogs, that is just as bad if not worst than roids.
  14. Rainmaker

    Rainmaker Banned

    If you are quoting my quote.. I'm not Lee :p Well you are right.. roids is something that is needed into the competition like this. Just keep in mind that you have to give supplements aswell for the liver and kidney as part of the maintenance to avoid liver failure.

    Over condition of the dog would come up a dog dry on the day of the match. Which won't even help the dog win at all. A well rested conditioned dog is best. Rolling into many dogs won't really be that bad specially if the dog is in schooling. The no-no on rolling a dog is when you roll a non-started dog (first time) to a rough dog, most of often than not it traumatized the dog, but of course there is always an exception with dogs with natural ability. There are really alot of science and principles in that. I met friends who got their own principle and belief in condition and picking up a prospect. In some cases when I was invited in such occassion of gametest, I see a potential dog and for me it's already a match dog but for some it still need more testing. It will all wound up in respect I would have to say.
  15. mr.clueless

    mr.clueless Good Dog

    firstly....mr rainmaker,i mean no offence to you and i respect the fact that you are willing to back up your understanding......but please respect the fact that most of the world do not have this priveledge............so calling people out over the internet and offering weights etc does not really show you in a good light......
    im a big strong guy its like me asking a man with his hands tied behind his back for a fist fight !

    also.....you say i have experience of dogfighting but i say for 100 % that i do not participate in illegal activities so please do not insinuate that i do.

    ive been around these dogs many years and learned from many people and maybe 1 or 2 have learned something from me....nothing more nothing less.

    as regards the subjects being discussed.....its worth keeping something in mind,these dogs are not machines,EVERY single bit of contact your dog has will take something out of him......just because somethings not visibly obvious doesnt mean its not there.......if you were to peel back the skin and look at the muscle of a dog after even a 10 minute roll you would see massive bruising to the muscles......this needs TIME to heal....do you wonder why your dog loses weight after a roll or show ? this is his body using up fat for fuel in his recovery.....rolling young dogs is plain wrong,all the time your young dog is healing he is not growing,you are wearing down his nervous system and the time will come when he will not heal he will just carry injuries.

    why 3 dog any dog it shows a simple lack of understanding......if you are matching dogs you should know by now that very rarely do these dogs quit on physical pain,you dont need to get your dog hurt to test his gameness.....he is more likely to quit through lack of air than quit through pain so instead of putting 3 dogs on him to get him hurt bring him in overweight on 1 rough dog.....very often a hard 20 minute roll against the right dog will show you much more than 3 20 minute rolls with different dogs....if after this you are still not sure then that only proves you dont have enough confidence in the dog or your own conditioning in which case im afraid thats your problem not the dogs.

    as regards the chemicals you are putting in your dogs.....if you dont fully understand them you are actually giving yourself more chance of something going wrong than going right......so many people have their dog run hot or catch a bleeder and then blame the keep or over conditioning......when in reality they just didnt have enough knowledge of the chemicals they was filling their dog with,then later on when the dogs liver or kidneys pack up or the bloods are constantly low they go back to a natural keep.....by which time the dog is physically shot and wont respond anyway !............

    there is an element of risk to any competetive event and you have to stack the odds in your favour....but sometimes you are actually stacking the odds against yourself and your dog by dabbling with things instead of waiting and getting a full understanding.....

    mr rainmaker i admire your persistance and keen nature and im sure the breed will go from strength to strength in your part of the world...but always ask what your not sure about instead of taking unecessary risks.;)
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 4, 2010
  16. ShakaZ

    ShakaZ Good Dog

    Thanks for that post Mr. Clueless.
  17. Rainmaker

    Rainmaker Banned

    Regarding that chemicals.. it's something personally. I'm not really sure of and have a the right program with and I believe I already told you about that. As I've we've talk over the PM it's something I would like to learn from you since you are a bodybuilder. Hehe. I have to admit, I myself don't have a solid keep yet.. it's not I who condition my dogs but a friend who is out of respect, I don't even ask the supplements and combinations he give me... I just get directions and I follow. For usually I'm not the one conditioning the dogs because I'm tied up with work with unpredictable schedules. I'm on my way in creating my own keep. Just the chemical combinations and dosage is where I lack full knowledge yet.

    I'm sorry if I put it in a way that you are participating in dogfighting. Wrong selection of words. I know clearly you are not participating on dogfighting.

    You give a good point on the the rolls and checking on the prospect. We are actually aware of that, and been doing that from the first time we got into the sport.. it's just that from experience sometimes it's not enough. When we met other dogman, we learned from them the signs to check out the dog. Most cases we even held like a small gathering to pick a prospect so alot of dogmen would get their opinion to check out our prospect, specially if we will match into a bigtime kennel. We lose alot before we won, but I have to say it's all worth it. We all do learn from experiences. I respect you bro with the knowledge you share. Hope sometimes we meet and we can untie your hands and talk about dogs ;)
  18. buddysmom

    buddysmom Good Dog

    Don't really care who does and who doesn't (personally wish no one would but that's just me)

    It just amuses me, because a LOT of people come off like they know all about it, how it should be done, etc. but then say "oh but I don't do it" ... so there are limited choices. Either everything they know is from books and hear say, or they HAVE experienced it (but deny it because it's illegal -- a reasonable course of action), or they are just talking out of their you-know-whats.
  19. ShakaZ

    ShakaZ Good Dog

    Or C. they know someone or someones who do it but choose not to divulge that info. Remember it's not illegal in all parts of the world and thanks to the internet the world is getting smaller.
  20. buddysmom

    buddysmom Good Dog

    Yeah this would only be counting where it's illegal, thinking of the U.S. and that is being geo-centric.

    If someone knows someone who does it, that falls under what they know is from hearsay (second hand).
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