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Dog aggression vs. Human aggression

Discussion in 'General Dog Discussions' started by ShanaRowan, Jul 16, 2014.

  1. ShanaRowan

    ShanaRowan FlirtPolin' Premium Member

    I am looking for studies, links, and anything else that shows there is nothing linking dog aggression to human aggression. Against my better judgment, I commented on a Facebook post made by a blog I (used to) follow called Border Wars, which I know now is authored by a man who is an anti-pit bull. We've managed to have a civil discourse so far but he is adamant that dog aggression and human aggression are absolutely related, and insists on using the example of "border collies and aussies were bred to herd sheep, and they also herd people and lawnmowers and cars" and that "dogs can't tell the difference between dogs and humans" (lol.)

    Not that this is by any means the most important thing in the world, but I'd love to have a link or two to shove in his face :yuck:
  2. catchrcall

    catchrcall Good Dog Staff Member Super Moderator

    I believe it was Mark Twain that said something like " Never argue with an idiot. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. "
  3. ignitethis

    ignitethis Good Dog

    X2. Why even bother trying to prove that moron wrong anyways? Talk to any vet, trainer, anyone who knows dogs, and it's pretty well known that HA and DA are NOT the same... at all.

    And I mean, come on. Dogs can sniff out drugs and bombs, but they can't recognize the difference between one animal (human) and another (dog)? You've gotta be pretty darn stupid to actually believe that.
  4. DancesWithCurs

    DancesWithCurs Good Dog

    Pretty much. Sorry, you can't tell me that a dog can tell the difference between thousands of smells, accurately hunt individual species it's been trained to find while ignoring livestock, and accurately pinpoint the one human being it's been trained to search for and yet it can't tell the difference between dogs and people. Lol okay. Sure
  5. xdogs

    xdogs Good Dog

    It all depends on what drive is involved in the observed aggression. There is prey-drive, most likely driving aggression towards little dogs/animals and sometimes also larger animals. Depending on the dog's intensity in prey drive, this can go sideways.
    There is territorial aggression. Probably a likely culprit in many bites towards humans entering the dog's territory. Other dogs might not get attacked, as other dogs will display appropriate appeasement behavior and understand the aggressor's body language to avoid an actual attack.
    Fear aggression.. probably the most likely to get more aggressive displays towards humans, than other dogs. Other dogs will back up when another dog evades them due to fear or insecurity. Humans just keep coming.
    Resource guarding.. again: probably more likely to escalate in a human/dog encounter. Humans are really bad at reading dogs.. dogs are really good at it, lol.
    Dominance... probably also more a dog/human issue.. because: again: most people suck at reading the body language of the dominant dog.
    Aggression displayed due to reproductive competition... can get really nasty in both cases. Gotta draw a line somewhere, said the male dog.

    Now.. a lot of dogs will not escalate with a human, because appropriate training and socialization taught the dog not to see humans as direct competitors in most of these drives.
    At the same time, reduced socialization opportunities with other dogs and animals will cause dog-on-dog interactions to be inappropriate and often more charged or aggressive.
    This is not a write up.. or an article.. but it is common sense.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 16, 2014

    BBPITS Good Dog

    ^^^ All of the above,another saying that can apply here is "you can't fix stupid"!.
  7. Lillie May

    Lillie May Good Dog

    This guy's argument is because herding dogs like to herd things other than animals, that a pit bull doesn't know the difference between DA and HA. I agree with the above posters, ignorance is a choice. If you really want to argue with the guy, you could post the link to the temperament test where pit bulls score higher than most dogs. Or the HSUS dog of the year award that went to a therapy pit bull, last year or the year before. The AKC or UKC page tells how they are great with people. But you're beating a dead horse IMO.
  8. ShanaRowan

    ShanaRowan FlirtPolin' Premium Member

    I know, I know. It would still be nice to have something definitive. I already told him that the concept is something that's been reaffirmed to me over the years by virtually every vet, trainer, behaviorist, breeder, and other dog expert I've ever known.
  9. Michele

    Michele Chi Super Dog Staff Member Administrator

    Direct him to the forum. :grin:
  10. DancesWithCurs

    DancesWithCurs Good Dog

    I think between Seven and Boogie, he'd get mauled
  11. NobodyHere

    NobodyHere Guest

    Good of a time as any. Boogie's on forum vacation for a few, so it'd just be me. :whip:
  12. ShanaRowan

    ShanaRowan FlirtPolin' Premium Member

    He has yet to be able to come up with a response to my deconstruction of his "pit bull" bite statistics - he made the mistake of explaining, in detail, that they are comprised of bites committed by anything and everything that appears terrier, bulldog or mastiffish - with or without a blocky head (to whomever happens to be making the report, and therefore are not classifiable as any one "breed," I replied.) So I don't think he'll be checking back to see anything else I post anyway. I guess he should just stick to his border collies! :lol:
  13. Lillie May

    Lillie May Good Dog

    "I pity the fool......"!!!
  14. DancesWithCurs

    DancesWithCurs Good Dog

    If he thinks that general herdiness in breeds of dogs that have been bred to be generally herdy to various species is on par with something that's been bred with an emphasis on aggression to dogs, then yes he probably should, because that makes no sense whatsoever and completely dismisses the selective behavior of several breeds bred to display aggression towards certain things, like livestock guardian dogs. If they didn't know how to tell the difference between their flocks and threats then they would be absolutely useless for the job. It also ignores the various types of aggression, such as small animal aggression and fear aggression that is targeted towards specific triggers. A dog that displays aggression towards one thing does not magically have aggression towards everything, and I thought that was a given but apparently with this guy it isn't. Lol.

    Should ask him if we should all be worried about sighthounds mauling me as a whole now. Because they certainly will chase down and kill rabbits, squirrels and other things but apparently that means they aim to kill me in my sleep! :lolbangtable:
  15. ShanaRowan

    ShanaRowan FlirtPolin' Premium Member

    I asked him the same thing about malamutes since before we rescued ours, all the rescues we talked to said they tend to be same sex aggressive... why aren't all the malamute owners getting mauled then? (He had no answer.) And for the record, my malamute is a dick to my pit mutts and I have a scar from him trying to beat me to a sandwich that fell on the ground, my other dogs would never DARE such bullshit. But I digress.
  16. aabartow

    aabartow Puppy

    I don't have any studies, but our 2yr old pit pretty much hates the rest of our dogs (they are kept apart for everyone's safety), but she is the biggest teddy bear when it comes to any human. She loves our kids and the only time she even acts aggressive towards a human is when she thinks they are trying to hurt one of us.

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
  17. Tiffseagles

    Tiffseagles GRCH Dog Premium Member

    I've had a conversation with him on the same topic. He'll give you some nonsense about them being a "land race". When asked what happens when you cross a Staffie and a Border Collie like is often done in flyball and other sports, he says the dog's behavior is what determines what "land race" is responsible. Basically if the dog ever lands a serious bite, it would be the fault of the Bull-and-Terrier side according to him.

    There is a correlational study that measures targets of aggression (owner reported survey data) that shows specific breeds are more likely to have specific targets.
  18. Lillie May

    Lillie May Good Dog

    Or by his own logic, because dogs can't tell the difference between humans, dogs, and all other living things, wouldn't we all be mauled/killed by dogs? We couldn't even keep them in our houses, they're sneaky little shits that would kill us in our sleep.
  19. ShanaRowan

    ShanaRowan FlirtPolin' Premium Member

    LOLOL. Yes, he went on and on, mentioned it about three times in his response to me.
  20. DancesWithCurs

    DancesWithCurs Good Dog

    Which I find kind of funny because the APBT is not a landrace breed. It is not an animal bred in adaptation to it's natural and cultural environment. It's a dog that was bred first and foremost to fight other dogs without any need to adapt to a natural area and then bred very selectively to preserve the temperament and to an extent, the look.

    The CAO is a good example of a landrace breed. The APBT? Lol nah
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 20, 2014

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