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Crufts Results

Discussion in 'Bull Terrier' started by Vicki, Mar 12, 2010.

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  1. Hucklebutt

    Hucklebutt Banned Back Yard Breeder

    Not every bull terrier breeder wants the most exagerated bull out there...I used to think they would never stop..until I read this...

    http://bulliez.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=11206

    Keep in mind what 'training' that looks like someone is training a dog to fight is simply a form of exercise.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mk3yegvpVo8"]YouTube- Bull Terrier on Spring Pole[/ame]

    BUT....You must be able to see beyond. =)

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lst42I_fQpQ"]YouTube- Bull Terrier VS Chihuahua[/ame]

    Just like Justus's Ambra, she does the same things, and than plays with pet rats! =P

    I agree dog shows play a huge part in ruining breeds, taking out drive, and athletic ability in the BT. Not always, but some yes, they do strive for it! Just like the breeder who told me lazy puppies dont get returned to the breeder! I know some out there dont want to breed bullies with drive, fire or tenacity, which I believe can be different from outright agression...but most think its linked!

    I had a breeder tell me, the exercises my dog did was going to cause him to turn on all my dogs and kill them one day. :confused: I think if my dog DID NOT do them, he would be more likely to lose it!

    Show fanciers do work hard to accomplish what they get, but its a different kind of work I would do with my dogs, and I do think, to get a dog in top condition, would be harder than to put my dog in the ring! But its still what people love to do, to each there own. I said I liked the red mini because that is the FIRST time I saw a BT in that type of condition in the ring! And to hear he did good sounds awesome! We can't change the breed standard, it is what it is...but I dont think people should remove any part of the dogs natural behaviour, drive, instincts, or shape to do so! The stuff about the GSD makes me sick!! I hate to see that stuff but its true! Now, if you look into the BT history you will see there were bull terriers at that time that looked just like some of today! With full heads and heavy bodies! So we must take that into consideration when judging that people went and messed them up 'today' when people just bred more of that type IMO. I have no problem with that! And NO ONE on the bull terrier section fights dogs-they simply respect, admire and enjoy a dogs history, and a perfectly conditioned dog!
     
  2. mr.clueless

    mr.clueless Good Dog


    i can only speak for myself but its human nature to show admiration for traits in dogs we value as traits in ourselves.....so yes i admire the guts,talent and conditioning it takes for a dog to fight another dog as i myself as a younger man fought men many times winning some and losing some so having an understanding of the dedication and work ethic it takes to compete leads to that same admiration for the ultimate fighting dog the apbt.....however thats a big difference to forcing some poor non combat breed like the ebt to fight,i like anyone else recognise that as cruelty.

    as far as substituting man for dog as regards natural behaviour....i dont think anything changes,it is the most natural thing in the world for men to fight....boys fight other boys,schools fight other schools,men fight other men be it in war or just for fun....as long as it is done with mututal consent and in a competetive manner wheres the problem ?...thats a whole different thing to bullying in the school yard,like many others i detest bullies.....hence i could never condone somebody fighting an ebt or a non combat breed against a dog bred specifically for fighting......no different to a fighting man starting a fight with somebody who prefers not to fight.....

    no of course we dont go out and hunt for food but what has hunting got to do with fighting ?.....hunting is for survival fighting is for competition........and thankfully the world has evolved to such point where we no longer need to hunt for our food !...that doesnt mean man doesnt still fight for fun though does it......

    i still maintain.....the " dog show " as a rule is fine.....its the breed clubs with their ludicrous standards to make dogs look different and unique that are to blame......if crufts gave a trophy out to a breed of dog with 2 heads you can bet some daft fools would be out there breeding 2 headed dogs........yes its unique....but is it not cruel ?
    oh no,allowing 2 dogs to do what comes natural is cruel :rolleyes:
     
  3. Mollie's Nana

    Mollie's Nana Krypto Super Dog Staff Member Super Moderator

    Just as a reminder.... again!! :no2:

    Dog fighting is a felony in all 50 states and the District of Columbia, punishable by up to 5 years in prison and a fine of $250,000 due to the 2007 Animal Fighting Prohibition Enforcement Act. The federal Animal Welfare Act prohibits the interstate transportation of dogs for fighting purposes.

    All discussions regarding dog fighting on this forum are for discussion only, no members of this site engage in dog fighting. While it may not be of interest to some, the history of the breed does interest some. If you aren't interested in the history of the breed, fine, but please, do not accuse any members here of fighting their dogs.... period!


    DISCLAIMER
    The views herein expressed in this forum do not necessarily reflect those of the posters or the forum owners and should be viewed strictly as entertainment and for historical purposes only. The posters nor the forum owners either promote or condone any violations of the "Animal Welfare Act of 1976", or any other Local, State and/or Federal Laws. Again, this post/thread should be viewed strictly as entertainment and/or for historical purposes only!
     
  4. Alma

    Alma GRCH Dog

    We have over 12300 members on this site. The posts youre selecting are just a small percentage of the topics we discuss on a daily basis. If in fact, you can show us there are more topics about dog fighting versus nutrition, photography, BSL, news, general discussion, training or just member chit chat, I would certainly allow your point some validity. Some me the numbers. :D

    What you have shown is a member or two that you have targeted to read, a thread or two, but you have neglected to read the topics that would be beneficial to you. Youre choosing to see the negative.

    We are a diverse group, we allow our members to speak their minds....what a boring forum this would be if we all thought the same way! ;)
     
  5. mr.clueless

    mr.clueless Good Dog


    i know thats for the benefit of the board and its a shame some folk cant debate things with common sense....but these playground taunts from certain members are like water off a ducks back now :lol:

    nobody here fights dogs we know that....the same as nobody here gassed the jews during world war 2......it dont mean it never happened though so surely if things are kept sensible and in perspective history can and should be included in debates concerning these dogs......and if its not of interest,dont read it simple.
     
  6. Vicki

    Vicki Administrator Administrator

    This thread was about the Crufts results....maybe a back on topic reminder?
     
  7. Obed

    Obed Good Dog Premium Member

    if this thread does not return to topic.. NOW.. it will get locked....
    a couple of you have an habitual arguement mode going on and I am tired of it.... if you can not be civil I suggest you avoid threads where the other is pariticipating... if you can not do that, i can do it for you....
     
  8. DeeDirtyDawg

    DeeDirtyDawg Good Dog

    here's a crufts winner that's not totally devoid of purpose: a norfolk terrier. i'm not big on small dogs, but norwich/norfolks are cool.

    [​IMG]
     
  9. Mollie's Nana

    Mollie's Nana Krypto Super Dog Staff Member Super Moderator

    Very cute little guy Dee.. thanks for sharing that picture. :)
     
  10. Bullful

    Bullful Little Dog

    "no of course we dont go out and hunt for food but what has hunting got to do with fighting ?.....hunting is for survival fighting is for competition........and thankfully the world has evolved to such point where we no longer need to hunt for our food !...that doesnt mean man doesnt still fight for fun though does it....."

    My point was that we as humans have evolved and so have dogs, is there any reason other than personal protection for any of us to fight?

    ---------- Post added at 06:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:13 PM ----------

    Back to the Crufts '05 BIS winner...
    Lovely photo of Coco but with all the time spent grooming her to have her coat in top condition I doubt that you would have found her going to ground like a true terrier. She is however the cutest little thing when she stands on her back legs and shakes her front legs up and down.
    We shared the group ring many times and less than a year after this photo was taken Rufus defeated her in the group at Westminster and went on to go BIS.
     
  11. mr.clueless

    mr.clueless Good Dog


    well the fighting sports be it boxing mma wrestling or whatever are some of the most popular sports worldwide in todays times......thats not personal protection......its just the nature of man to compete......
    i mean half the population of the world cant be wrong surely !

    back with the dog shows......i dont think anybody could possibly deny that dog shows are for people not dogs......mainly for peoples egos.....these egos have dictated the " look " of many dog breeds at the cost of health,agility and general structure.......personally i fail to see how in todays times that can be acceptable.

    tell me how these dogs BENEFIT from looking the way they do, they didnt get to look this way by accident,they was bred this way on purpose for human egos for the dog show !....to be unique :no2:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    since when has being a deformed unhealthy caricature been unique !....but thats just the mentality of show folk.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 16, 2010
  12. Mollie's Nana

    Mollie's Nana Krypto Super Dog Staff Member Super Moderator

    Actually, there's nothing wrong with that Poodle.... just a (in my opinion) bad hair day! :lol: Actually, I'm not sure there's anything wrong with that Pug, other than they just happened to catch a funny expression with the camera. That first dog, oh my!! All those wrinkles are cute, but I'm sure they are hard to clean between and get dry. And actually, I'm thinking that last picture is of a Staffy, and he doesn't look deformed in any way... but I have a very untrained eye, so I may be missing something that a trained eye would catch. ;)
     
  13. mr.clueless

    mr.clueless Good Dog


    listen to one of those pugs breath !...the stafford did not look like that 40 years ago and is a far less healthy dog than its predecessors.....the poodle is just needless and the wrinkley thing needs a good iron !.....these are examples of the damage human beings can do to defenceless breeds of dog for the sake of ego !

    now try telling me these 4 dogs have been bred and kept this way for their own good and not for the sake of the warped minds of dog show people
     
  14. Mollie's Nana

    Mollie's Nana Krypto Super Dog Staff Member Super Moderator

    Just because the Poodle isn't your "breed of choice" doesn't mean that there is anything wrong with the Poodle in that picture. They aren't necessarily my breed of choice either, and I could never get one with a hairdo like that.:lol: But that doesn't mean the dog has any "flaws" or is deformed or anything like that. The wrinkley thing.... yes, he's wrinkled... but he's not your breed of choice, so you don't look at it with an open attitude. Let's just agree to disagree on this, but not everyone has the same opinion on dogs, looks or otherwise. Different opinions is what makes the world go round. ;)
     
  15. CoolHandJean

    CoolHandJean Krypto Super Dog

    The poodle used to be a working breed, as a retriever, so, I guess I should say a sporting breed. I have heard that the haircut was done for work purposes, that the fur was kept near the front to keep the vital organs safe, much like the Portuguese Water Dog. I don't think that poodle looks "deformed".
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 16, 2010
  16. MsAcer

    MsAcer Good Dog

    That poodle could probably do some type of work! I know it can take a breath without choking. I have told poodle breeders who bitch about popular poodle mixes(goldendoodles and labardoodles) that if they had a "working poodle" class with dogs show in a working clip, people would be more open to own one. Basic people hate those show clips!
    I also had a friend who bred and showed Australian cattle dogs. Over the corse of the years she worked with the breed, they became more and more distorted. They became broader and more huge. Looking like a barrel chested show Staffie and not a cattle dog. A dog that was so big it would have a hard time moving cattle about all day! BUT those were the dogs that stared *winning* for some reason, so people bred more dogs to fit the winning ring form and away from the working form. And this was why the border collie people were so upset about BC's going AKC. Looking unique is not always good.
     
  17. CoolHandJean

    CoolHandJean Krypto Super Dog

    MSAcers, that has happened with many breeders, unfortunately, including the Labrador and Husky. I was a bit sad when the Plott became AKC accepted.
     
  18. MsAcer

    MsAcer Good Dog

    How right you are! Or when the AKC breeders make up breed myths to back up "distinctions" of the breed. Like multiple dew claws on some breeds to "help the climb" or the reasons for stupid but distinctive haircuts. One breeder of Kerry Blue terriers told me that that huge fall of hair over their eyes was to protect them from badgers :lol: Like a bunch of hair is gonna stop badgers claws and teeth :lol: I guess she never hunted a badger with one of her terriers!
     
  19. Azelgin

    Azelgin Puppy

    This argument is really getting stale. So what's the big deal? Every animal that man has decided to domesticate has been done so to suit his own needs. Weather it be to put food on our table, or entertain us with fetching a ball. There's very little need for the original purpose of most the dog breeds around today. If only those that needed a dog to perform a certain task owned one, there would be a hell of a lot fewer dogs around. Probably 99.9% of the dogs in the civilized world have no use, but as a pet. If you feel the need to develop a breed of pet that looks different than different than your neighbors pet, so what? If you don't want the kind of dog that spends its time prancing around the ring, get something else. Are ALL the dogs that are bred for show walking genetic defects? Probably not nearly as bad as most us humans out here. We wouldn't need any health insurance, if we were half as fit as most our dogs are. Maybe, a breeding program for a better human would be a good idea. Oh wait, Hitler tried that.:p
    The show world is what it is. Move on. Seems as if some people just have an axe to grind, too much time on their hands, or a hidden agenda, instead of true concern for the welfare of some strangers funny looking dogs.
    As for egos: I feel that the belief that we are individualy superior to our fellow human beings and that what we are doing is the right choice, is why we have survived as a species. Second guessing your actions while facing death from a superior preditor will get you eaten. But, that's another story.

    JMHO

    I'd have alot more posts on here, if they didn't keep getting mysteriously deleted.:confused:

    ---------- Post added at 06:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:24 PM ----------

    I'm sure I'll catch a lot of shit for my post. Like I care.
     
  20. Hucklebutt

    Hucklebutt Banned Back Yard Breeder

    I like this post-hopefully its okay to reply to it??

    " There's very little need for the original purpose of most the dog breeds around today."


    I kind of think that this is part of the problem...people own all these certain breeds of dogs, to put them on the couch...would I get a border collie and tell it to have fun in my back yard? No, I would not...but thats america for ya, they also get pet tigers and make them birthday cakes, its ass backwards...I kind of think, if your going to have a breed of dog, ment to do something, if your going to breed this dog, you should be able to prove this dogs natural instincts are strongs and distinct. Just like some breeders think you shouldn't be allowed to breed if the pup they sold you does not fit the breed standard, IMO, the dog doesnt meet 'my' breed standard, if it cant preform, or come close to preforming a task similair, or the one it was bred to do. If you put a BT in a room full of rats (with the exception of ambra) I would expect to see dead rats...But thats just IMO.

    " If only those that needed a dog to perform a certain task owned one, there would be a hell of a lot fewer dogs around. Probably 99.9% of the dogs in the civilized world have no use, but as a pet. "

    Would that be such a bad thing?? I am not even sure myself, However, I know it would solve a ton of problems...



    "If you feel the need to develop a breed of pet that looks different than different than your neighbors pet, so what? "

    Eh, I dont think the problem lies with the development of the BT, it was created long before our time, but the problem might be with taking it over the top..

    "If you don't want the kind of dog that spends its time prancing around the ring, get something else. "

    There are a handful of dogs that are the 'kind' for the show ring, right there next to the chihuahua.



    "Are ALL the dogs that are bred for show walking genetic defects? Probably not nearly as bad as most us humans out here. We wouldn't need any health insurance, if we were half as fit as most our dogs are. "

    Eh...On pedigreed dogs exposed, it showed many many sick dogs, and the problems dog breeds have today, were not around when they were first created, humans have health problems, and because we own dogs, they do as well.



    "Maybe, a breeding program for a better human would be a good idea. Oh wait, Hitler tried that.:p"

    hehe...
     
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