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Cropping show and pet dogs

Discussion in 'Dog Debates' started by Big Block Bullies, Dec 28, 2014.

  1. So I'd like to hear people's opinions on ear cropping... In particular I want to know how people feel about cropping for purely cosmetic reasons.

    Many breeds have their ears cropped. Some protection/guardian dogs and terriers need erect ears to help pinpoint sounds, for example. But what about the others? Are you going to give your pet APBT a battle crop? Are you doing it because you like it or because you want the dog to look "tough"? If you get an AmBully to show are you going to crop? Do you think it's more likely to win that way? Would you crop your *pet* Boxer, Doberman, etc? Why?
     
  2. demo

    demo Little Dog

    Hello BigBlock,maybe try ear cropping on the search bar,there is at least one fairly new thread on it.As for me it is not my thing,but I'm not looking to make friends or foes over it,at least not now:)
     
  3. SevenSins

    SevenSins Forget The Dog, Beware Of Owner Staff Member Administrator Super Moderator

    Cropping either show or pet dogs is done purely for cosmetic reasons. I'm not sure why people seem to think cropping for the show ring isn't a cosmetic reason.

    I'm going to give my APBT whatever crop will complement his or her head. I do it because I prefer the appearance of cropped ears in many cases. If, for some reason, I had a mental break and decided to get an AmBully, I would almost certainly crop. Yes, I would crop a pet Boxer or Doberman...why? For the same reason I crop my show dogs, because I prefer the appearance of a cropped dog. You're also very unlikely to find an ethical Boxer or Doberman breeder in North America who doesn't crop their entire litter before they leave.
     
    EstyEsty likes this.
  4. catchrcall

    catchrcall Good Dog Staff Member Super Moderator

    I don't care what somebody else does with their dogs, that's their business. I won't crop mine, I just don't like how it looks and it serves me no purpose. I don't buy the whole cropped dogs hear better, or can locate better business. I've hunted both cropped and natural catch dogs and I've never seen any evidence that a cropped dog locates or hears any better. I personally think it's BS. If I had a choice between two catch dogs, same size, same sex, same ability but one is cropped and one is not I'll take the natural one every time. That flap keeps a lot of trash and water out of those ears. As far as dogs where the breed standard is cropped, if that's the standard then so be it. If I want one of those breeds bad enough then I guess I'll deal with it.
     
  5. Vidman

    Vidman Puppy

    My opinion is depends on the dog I guess I have an amstaff he's cropped and I'm glad I did but it was a hard choice but I do love the look, but in reality it really doesn't matter, do what you like if your willing to deal with aftercare and really want it the pup will forget about it. I haven't see one cropped pup or dog mad about it, I do like leaving some ear though not too short but classy , but that's my opinion and you know what people say about opinions
     
  6. To clarify...I'm not just asking for "yes or no" opinions. The thread you're referring to is basically just about "Do you like it? Should I do it?" What I want to know is WHY do you do it?
     
  7. Yes, which is why I specified "show or pet dogs". There is a reason for the battle crop (why it's called the battle crop) but if your dog is a pet what is the need? Ears play such a little role in conformation so if you have a bully for showng why do you crop...for your own liking or for the benefit of the judges or what? That's what I'm asking.

    In other words I'm not asking for a list of ways a crop could be functional.
     
  8. Agreed, as far as APBTs and the like. The crop styles generally used do not benefit hearing for those dogs and the things the dogs are used for the dogs benefit more from natural ears. I have the same experience and preference when it comes to catch dogs. However there is no denying that an erect ear is more effective at detecting and locating sounds...just ask mother nature. Have you ever seen a bat or a fox with rose ears? No! Because their livelihood depends on their hearing. But that is an erect ear, not a mostly missing ear!

    On a side note...can somebody tell me how to put multiple quotes in one reply?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 29, 2014
  9. Michele

    Michele Chi Super Dog Staff Member Super Moderator

    Next to the "reply with quote" is a little box with quotes in it and a + sign. Use that.
     
  10. shotgun_wg

    shotgun_wg Little Dog

    I don't care for it. Just like catchrcall said I see no purpose at all. I also hunt with my dogs and having ears helps prevent the trash from getting in. When it rains it helps keep water out. The way I figure they were born with it and it doesn't negatively effect them let it stay.


    Shotgun
    Arkansas
     
  11. SevenSins

    SevenSins Forget The Dog, Beware Of Owner Staff Member Administrator Super Moderator

    I assume the "not" bolded by me was a typo since that seems to be exactly what you're asking. It sounds as though you're anti-crop (based on some of the wording of your posts) and trying to get people who crop show and pet dogs to justify to you why they choose to do so. The answer is pretty simple in most cases: "I like it, and I want to."

    Not everything we do with dogs serves any purpose aside from human preference or convenience. Are you anti-spay/neuter?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 29, 2014
    EstyEsty likes this.
  12. Beatrix Kiddo

    Beatrix Kiddo Good Dog

    I hate when people find it "cruel." If you want your dog to have cropped ears because you like the way it looks, regardless if he is shown for conformation or he's a couch potato, do it. It's the individuals choice, no one has any place saying it's "right" or "wrong." I only encourage people less educated on it to take their time selecting a vet, request before/after pics, reviews, etc. Because nothing is worse than a botched crop job. It's like women getting breast implants, if you want them that's cool. Just don't go fucking up your only set of ta-tas.
     
  13. No that's not what I'm asking, I wrote exactly what I meant. A "functional" crop actually serves a purpose and that is not what I'm talking about.


    I am neither for nor am I against cropping for any reason, be it functional, medical, or cosmetic. I believe it is a personal choice just like braces for humans' teeth. Sometimes it's needed, sometimes it's not, in any case it's up to the person that pays for the procedure.


    I'm just really (and objectively) curious. I was talking to someone in my neighborhood the other day who stopped me while I was walking my dogs. He gave me a sort of backhanded compliment, something like, "Your puppy is gorgeous...but you better get on her ears before it's too late to crop!" Almost as if to say her ears were detracting from her beauty or like she needs to have her ears cropped for some reason. We talked about it for a while and I told him I was on the fence about it because I like her ears but I'm wondering if they'll affect her success in the show ring. He has a Pit that is cropped but is just a pet, doesn't show or compete or do any work. When I asked about why he cropped he said, "Well, uh...I don't know really it was just the thing to do I guess." So that got me wondering why people do it. Is it just something that carried over? Is it all about the look?


    I know there are some people that love it some people that hate it and some that love the dog regardless and could care less. But is there any other reason for anybody besides "it looks cool"? For those with show dogs: it is the current "ring fad" to crop and it is hard to find many Ch/GrCh dogs with natural ears. Is that because the judges are biased or simply because it only makes sense that if 98% of the dogs are cropped you're more likely to see more cropped Champs?

    And to answer your other question...The health benefits of spaying any dog that you do not intend to show or breed speak for themselves. Castration on the other hand is pretty much a matter of convenience, as the health benefits and health risks seem to almost balance out.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 29, 2014
  14. John Sauceda

    John Sauceda Big Dog

    The ONLY reason I cropped was because I like how it looks. I went with a short, almost battle crop with Hammer because his head is so big. 18" tall, 54# (slightly out of shape) but his head is 21" around.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Oakley's head isn't nearly as big as his was at that same age so I went with a taller crop.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  15. SevenSins

    SevenSins Forget The Dog, Beware Of Owner Staff Member Administrator Super Moderator

    Just to be clear here, are we talking about actual APBTs or UKC "APBTs" when it comes to show ring fads? Cropping for the judges is a fad in the UKC ring, but most UKC judges are AKC crossover (where cropping is a ring fad in most traditionally cropped breeds) and most UKC "APBTs" are AmStaffs or AmStaff mixes, not APBTs. ADBA and AADRI judges for the most part couldn't give two shits about ears, so I would say that it's definitely not a fad in APBTs and more about individual preference.

    Not really, but that's certainly what most people manage to convince themselves of when they're really doing it because they don't want the blood and smell all over their house.
     
  16. John your dogs are beautiful! Their crops do compliment their heads well. I will post a picture of my girl when I get home later (still has natural ears).

    Mammary tumors are the most common malignant tumors found in female dogs, the risk of developing them is greatly reduced by spaying dogs before 2.5 years. Spaying also elimintes the risk of pyometra which affects nearly a quarter of intact female dogs. I have always spayed my pets and retired show dogs for those reasons alone.

    I don't think most people do it to avoid the mess...honesty I think most people nowadays have never experienced it. There is such a big, public push to neuter ALL dogs as EARLY as possible (without any regard to actually educating people about the *true* benefits/risks) I'm sure a huge portion of the population has never been exposed to the reality of a bitch in heat.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 29, 2014
  17. SevenSins

    SevenSins Forget The Dog, Beware Of Owner Staff Member Administrator Super Moderator

    Usually occurring in older dogs and usually treatable (though not necessarily curable) if caught early, and this isn't even the cancer that most owners think of when they go out and have their bitch spayed nor is it the one most pro-spay/neuter-everything people use as their reason to, well...spay/neuter everything. :lol:

    Also usually treatable/curable if caught early, every owner of an intact bitch should know what to look for and be particularly aware that it happens in most cases within a couple months out of a heat cycle. You can also completely eliminate the possibility of pyo and leave beneficial hormones alone by doing an OSS.
     
  18. Haha...unfortunately the "spay/neuter everything" crowd often doesn't use health benefits/risks at all as the reason. It seems more recently that that rather than either spay or castrate your dog for the good of that individual dog it has turned into one giant guilt trip. Alter all your dogs or else you're murdering every dog in the shelter! I think it is personal choice but that the decision should not be made from such an exaggerated point of view; account for your preference but do your own research and keep the individual dog's health and safety in mind.

    Even further off topic, but I feel the same way about "buy vs adopt". I HATE when people go around bashing breeders as a whole or anyone that buys from a breeder rather than adopting from a shelter/rescue, saying things like "all breeders are evil" and "everyone should always adopt". It is ignorant and one-dimensional.
     
  19. Buca

    Buca Little Dog

    As seven said, my answer to why I cropped is because I prefer the look and my vet is very trusted and well known here in Maryland. So I knew she would do a good job.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
     
  20. DancesWithCurs

    DancesWithCurs Good Dog

    That crop is uneven
     
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