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Discussion in 'Dog Debates' started by VonKromeHaus, Jul 12, 2011.

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  1. VonKromeHaus

    VonKromeHaus Good Dog

    Split Yet Again!!!!

    That proves nothing but the dog's HEART and DRIVE to me. My little Red dog would run for HOURS chasing another animal if I let her, she had 2 torn ACLs and some nerve damage in a leg and she was NOT conditioned either. Her endurance was awesome but her health was a whole nother' story. I don't know how everyone conditions their dog but I do know that it is no harder than conditioning a dog for sport work and will stand by that statement.

    So Cliff, you are very hypocritical in your views then. What's the difference between an un-health tested Dobe and an un-health tested APBT? The Dobe was a working dog years ago as was the GSD and the Rottie etc. What's SO special about the game-bred APBT that makes it IMMUNE to health problems and so special that it doesn't need health testing?

    IMHO- An APBT needs more health testing than some of the breeds mentioned because of their heart and drive, sometimes you never realize that there is something wrong with them.

    If you have the tools available to you that will help you make the breed BETTER, why NOT use them? Especially when breeding anything tested or not is such a crapshoot. Is it the price, putting out a couple hundred bucks that puts these breeders off? I just don't get it.

    As far as telling endurance from a photo...you can't tell their exact endurance but you can get an idea. A lot of dogs when they get really hot and almost overworked, their tongue starts to curl up at the end some ever slightly, some more. You can see in some pictures that there are dogs at the show whose tongues are curling up which IMHO means that the dog is getting close to being overworked. The picture below is a great example...this dog actually got heat exhaustion... he is a nicely conditioned dog for what he is but that didn't help his endurance.....Note the tongue....

    The fact is that MOST APBT type dogs are comparable to body builders and the bulky muscles affect their endurance...while they used to be LEAN muscle like a runner, they had to have lean muscle so that they could outlast their opponent. Look at the old Game-bred dog pics...ALMOST none of them have the same muscle tone that people build their dogs for the ADBA ring, they used to be leaner muscled. Either way, When I see a picture of a dog with a tongue that looks like poor Samsons, yes, I assume that the dog doesn't have that great of endurance especially when the picture is from a conformation show where the dog spends little time outside of it's crate doing stuff. JMO.

    IMHO- You can't NOT health test and then bash people who DO and are breeding appropiately, or bash certain breeds because they aren't titled first but then turn around and say "I'd breed a dysplastic dog as long as it worked." You have NO room for judgement when you yourself don't even know if you're breeding dogs with genetic faults or not!!!!!
  2. Boogieman

    Boogieman Good Dog Premium Member

    This is by NO WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM fact. Actually it's downright stupid. It's 100% assumption.

    I'll put my conditioned dog up against ANY to see who is conditioned and who isn't, and who has more endurance.

    ---------- Post added at 11:14 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:11 AM ----------

    ---------- Post added at 11:18 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:14 AM ----------

    You've just proven you don't REMOTELY know anything about conditioning a dog LOL. Bring yours over and I'll put it in it's grave trying to keep up with mine and we'll see how REMOTE the work is they are doing LOL. I will even pay for disposal of the body LOL.

    As for what the AKC dogs do preparing for shows LOL, now that's funny even making the comparison. Stick with the staffs cuz you sure don't know anything about an APBT. LOL

  3. crimsonghost

    crimsonghost Little Dog

    Your talking in circles... My dogs are walked for miles for dog shows. No chains no nothing well maybe a little flirtpole once a year. They do not have this big muscle mass you speak. Lmao If the dogs at shows have huge muscles, it's probably just a few from people that don't understand the difference between hard turning and free turning mills. Most the dogs I see at shows are food bowl conditioned. So I guess the shows you go to are different. The point of conditioning is to lose as much weight as possible but without losing strength. So with that said you would still have muscle MAss your twisting words around to make them suit your argument. But honestly this conversation is a waste of time. Y'all have fun.
  4. VonKromeHaus

    VonKromeHaus Good Dog

    Conditioning a dog does NOT make them a working dog. Just because they are conditioned doesn't make them a working dog. That was the point.

    I find it hilarious that some people think conditioning equals a working dog that is breed worthy. It is laughable!
  5. Adrianne

    Adrianne Big Dog

    Unfortunately I think the people with easy keepers, like my dog, give those who work their dogs hard to look as good as they do. My dog used to be a go-all-week dog but these days if you drag him out of the house in summer he looks half dead. That said he's still lean and one good run gives the impression he's a pretty capable dog.

    I don't find it hard to put muscle on my malinois either but frankly I don't strive for it.

    I have a lot of respect for a well conditioned dogs, I am however extremely disappointed with the number of knee issues alone this breed is becoming infamous for as well as other joint issues and cardiac issues that many gamers think turning a blind shoulder and singing lalala loudly will cure.

    I think that a well conditioned dog shouldn't excuse the need for being sure the joints aren't crumbling beneath a layer of muscle.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 12, 2011
  6. cliffdog

    cliffdog Good Dog

    Most sensible thing anybody's said, IMO. Nobody's changing any minds here.
  7. VonKromeHaus

    VonKromeHaus Good Dog

    Your dogs have bulky muscles not lean muscle. You can see that in pictures.
  8. Boogieman

    Boogieman Good Dog Premium Member

    I find it hilarious you think you own working dogs then, because they are neither conditioned or worked LOLOLOL You think schutzund is WORK? LOL That's funny! It's about training, not working.

    The WORK my dog was bred for is illegal so no I'm not going to WORK it. You don't get the fine tune conditioning my dogs have by accident. My dog has a job. It's being the best he can be at shows. He WORKS daily to maintain the high level of competitiveness he brings to the table.

    So laugh all you want, cuz the joke is on you. LOL
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 12, 2011
  9. Adrianne

    Adrianne Big Dog

    It seems like most have sport and show dogs... that or work needs to be redefined.
  10. odnarb

    odnarb Little Dog

    I am familiar with conditioning a dog, and I know damn well that most ADBA dogs are conditioned at the food bowl. And I don't care how much you are handwalking, flirt poling, and treadmilling a dog. It's not work. It's exercise. It's like Miss America getting ready for her beauty pageant. I'm sure that is hard work, too.

    IMO, working a dog requires involving its mind, too. You know, like Schutzhund, French Ring, herding, catch work, even obedience, flyball, and agility. Not trotting around a show ring, no matter what the registry.

    How many performance titles do you have on those working dogs?

    My only dog is an old man with slipping hocks, so I wouldn't expect him to keep up with your show dogs.
  11. cliffdog

    cliffdog Good Dog

    What should we do to "work" our dogs then, VKH? Move to Mexico? LOL I'm down if you're paying air fare!
  12. Boogieman

    Boogieman Good Dog Premium Member

    I'm not the one crying to have it done. Anybody that wants to prove me wrong, send the cash, and I'll test for whatever you want me to. My only comment in this thread on health testing is about people who have PROVEN health defects and breeding it anyway. So WTF did they even bother to spout off about how important health testing is if they find out they have a health defect and breed it any way LOL. Seriously that's just downright stupid. I stand behind my dogs 100%. Anybody that isn't happy can send it back for a different one anytime. I also stand behind their health. You get one with a problem, I'll give you another one. That's my health guarantee.

    So I'll be looking for that cash or money order along with the list of what you want tested. :)

    ---------- Post added at 11:43 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:42 AM ----------

    LOL once again, you prove loud and clear you know jack about working or conditioning a dog hahahahahahaha Please don't make an idiot out of yourself claiming what you "know" about "most" ADBA dogs either. You're a simpleton parroting stupid shit you know nothing about.

    You and your slipping hock turd stay put and leave the work to the bulldogs :)
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 12, 2011
  13. VonKromeHaus

    VonKromeHaus Good Dog

    Schutzhund is SPORT. I agree with Adrianne, most are Sport or Show dogs. My dog does PP work and that IS work IMHO, he is also conditioned VERY nicely for a GSD.

    I see that same tired excuse time after time. Can't work an APBT cause their "Work" is illegal now.

    I stand by it. Conditioning a dog does not make them a working dog. They have to be trained to do something to be a working dog......such as a Working Cattle dog, PP dog, K9, Service dog etc. Those are working dogs IMHO.
  14. crimsonghost

    crimsonghost Little Dog

    My dogs have bulky muscles???
  15. VonKromeHaus

    VonKromeHaus Good Dog

    Cliff- What about Hog dogs? Why don't more people do that with their "Working" APBTs? I sure in the hell ain't going to support people going to Mexico to work their dogs in the pits.

    AS far as what you could, there are many many sports that test the health and endurance and conditioning as well as the nerves of a dog....Odnab mentioned a few!
  16. cliffdog

    cliffdog Good Dog

    That's not an "excuse" it's a fact. The US government don't like our dogs and what they do. Now if you think that's what has to be done to prove a dog is a working animal, that's fine, but you won't catch me standing in a box with a dog between my legs just to prove that my dog gets worked. If I lived in Russia you bet your ass I wouldn't ever buy or sell pups off a sire without a win to his name. But this ain't Russia.
  17. VonKromeHaus

    VonKromeHaus Good Dog

    Crimsong- you are taking what I'm saying about bulky muscles personally. Most APBTs in the ADBA ring have bulky muscles. The best example I can think of right now is an APBT conditioned to do Lure Coursing...they are LEAN muscled dogs and have endurance, much like the original dogs of the breed.

    If so many of you feel that the Title makes the dog in other breeds, then WHY is it NOT important in the APBT breed?
  18. Adrianne

    Adrianne Big Dog

    Why does this forum always demand, and or get their way, to close threads when they just don't like them any more? Is it that difficult to walk away, and or force the members to grow up and move on from a disagreement without a lock?

    I have no issue with not working your apbt just like not working any other show breed, it is bit silly calling a show dog a work dog though.
  19. Boogieman

    Boogieman Good Dog Premium Member

    I stand by the fact that Schutzund isn't work either. It's a training thing. I guess your definition of work and mine are 2 different things. If we were to compare it to the real world, your dog working is like a secretary sitting at a desk answering phones, my dogs work is man busting ass pouring concrete all day. They are both "work" by definition Only one is LABOR though. So keep up the good work with the schutzund, and I'll keep up the REAL work conditioning my dogs :D Oh and just for the record when everybody wants to cry about my views, you were the one who started the babble about conditioning isn't work LOL
  20. Adrianne

    Adrianne Big Dog

    Boogie, she said in agreement with me that schutzhund is a sport, just like your dogs are show dogs. Our dogs are judged on their abilities, your dogs are judged on their looks.

    That said the amount of "work" my dogs do (which is in fact just exercise to prolong their natural strength and endurance) is likely a crap load more than you imagine and a crap load more than I wish I had to do on a daily basis usually.

    (ie the asshole staff that is whining because he's not gotten his 3 hours in the pool, 1 hour walk, 1 hour training and at least 30 minutes of tugging that would be ideal)
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