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Can you get a Blue Pit that is 100% APBT?

Boss

Little Dog
I have a blue APBT, that is "purple ribbon" bred and i have the ped, So does this make her legit?
 

milew66623

Big Dog
I have a blue APBT, that is "purple ribbon" bred and i have the ped, So does this make her legit?
Purple ribon means 7 dogs behind it were registered with the UKC for 7 generations or something like that. UKC typically is Amstaffs, a lot of people have american bullies registered with adba as APBT, doesn't mean it's so. It depends on what bloodlines the dog is from. Post the ped.
 

bluestark

American Bully Moderator
My male is a 'PR' UKC, ADBA registered. BUT!!! that does not mean he is APBT> he is an AMERICAN BULLY, and I am sooooo glad! He will probably end up being ABKC, and ABBA (new bully registry) if possible.
 

Pipbull

Big Dog
Wait......there's a new Bully registry called......ABBA?!?

:lol: :lol: :lol:

They don't have Best in Shows, they have Dancing Queens.
 

woody d

Big Dog
The difference is a APBT is a real dog and AB is a wanna be APBT.
jk all you AB owners.
The AmBully is a breed of dog, its the owners/breeders that dont know the difference in my experience. This whole Am bully/APBT confusion has been caused by uneducated and unethical breeders.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Rampage

Puppy
^ I agree and it came from the Razors Edge "creator" himself, Dave Wilson, that he used other dog breeds and paper hung his dogs to keep their APBT register.
 

bluestark

American Bully Moderator
yes, And i will not get started. Go to Ambully forum and read the posts ... I posted. Maybe that will clear a bit up.

---------- Post added at 09:58 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:57 AM ----------

and yes pipbull, this new registry is taking off. gonna be better than abkc i believe ,, if they stick with their word. A girl on here is from the abba, that is how i found out about it. lol
 

milew66623

Big Dog
^ I agree and it came from the Razors Edge "creator" himself, Dave Wilson, that he used other dog breeds and paper hung his dogs to keep their APBT register.
Other breeds...such as amstaffs?

he used other dog breeds and paper hung his dogs to keep their APBT register.

Do you have proof of this? I'd like to see it if you do, but i'm sure you don't. Maybe your dogs papers are hung???
 

woody d

Big Dog
Other breeds...such as amstaffs?



Do you have proof of this? I'd like to see it if you do, but i'm sure you don't. Maybe your dogs papers are hung???
If you look at some of these dogs its very obvious there are other breeds mixed in. You cant get results like this in a matter of 20 years of selective breeding. I would guess OEB and various mastiffs. JMO

---------- Post added at 12:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:24 PM ----------

History of Amstaff/Blue APBTS


In Wayne D. Brown's book HISTORY OF THE AMERICAN PIT BULL TERRIER, on pages 25 and 26 he note’s that in the late 1930’s one of the most important bloodlines of Pit Bulls were the Lightner dogs. He illustrates that in the conventions of 1936 and 1937, there were Lightner dogs of the dark variety and Lightner dogs of the red nose variety, and a classic confrontation of the two. When Bob Hemphill wrote Lightner that they were going to use Hall's Searcy Jeff, of the red nose Lightner strain, in the Oklahoma Convention of 1936 at Medicine Park Oklahoma, Lightner wrote back that the red nose blood in Jeff was as game was would ever be bred, and, further that the black and blue breeding in (Runyon's Colorado) Imp (II) was as game as would ever be bred...So, the contest between Hall's Searcy Jeff and Runyon's Colorado Imp II at the Oklahoma Convention of 1936 was a classic confrontation between the red nose Lightner dogs and the dark Lightner dogs. Earl Tudor handled Imp and he proved to be game. Jeff had punished Imp severely around the head and nose and Tudor picked him up. However, he scratched Imp and he went across with his nose bumping the ground, unable to get his head up, but he took a foothold on Jeff. Jeff beat Imp in 54 minutes. Later, Hall's Searcy Jeff was to beat Imp's brother Colorado Dan, also...After Searcy Jeff had beaten Colorado Imp II and Colorado Dan, their owner, Jeff Runyon, quit the game and sold his dogs. This is one of the few times I have ever found in literature, blue dogs before 1936. The year 1936 was the year the AKC finally recognized the, as it was then known, Stafforshire Terrier. This was the year that the red nose dogs defeated the blue blooded dogs. The dogs of this blood was sold but it is not said who to, although it is mentioned that at least some of these dogs found their way to Joe Corvino who, for a time at least, was involved in the formation of the AKC American Staffordshire Terriers. Dogmen wanted winning GAME dogs back then, and Imp certainly proved his gameness that day against Jeff, in a stumbling scratch. Many a true dogmen would have been more than happy to have an Imp bred dog in their yard. Back then game losers weren’t penalized, and were worthy of being bred. I know that AmStaff people regard the red noses with abhorrence, and I also know that Game folks today don't care for the blue color. Actually most of them can’t stand it at all because most of the time (but not always) a blue dog stands for being bred for looks and looks alone. I do have to wonder though what the American Pit Bull Terrier would look like today if Imp II had won that fight compared to the American Staffordshire Terrier?



Whether or not people want to believe it, blue is a legitimate color in the American Pit Bull Terrier gene pool as evidenced and show further more by the Blue Paul, or sometimes called blue Poll. A Scottish strain now extinct, but whose descendants clearly live on in today’s blue dogs.

These solid blue or solid red Scottish gladiators resembled the fighting Staffordshires of England but could weigh twice as much. The blue dogs were known in Scotland as Blue Pauls, and the reds as Red Smuts. The name Blue Paul derives from a Scottish yarn about the pirate Paul Jones who reportedly brought the dogs from abroad to the district of Kirkintilloch.

The dogs were popular with the gypsies of that district who maintained that the dogs originally came from the Galloway coast, lending more color than blue to the Paul Jones tale. Like the bull and terrier breeds from which they derived, the Blue Pauls were game to the death in the ring. These dogs remained mute even at the height of battle, very much like the Tosa of Japan.

In appearance, the Blue Paul was similar in appearance to the Bullmastiff of the late 1800s. The dog was a smooth coated cobby dog weighing about 45 lbs (20.5 kg), standing 20 inches (51 cm) at the shoulder. The head was large, the muzzle short and square. The jaws and lips were even, without overhanging flews. The stop was slight: eyes, dark hazel. The ears, set on high, were invariably cropped. The face was wrinkleless but the eyebrows were contracted or knit. Mr. James B. Morrison of Greenock, England reported that the last Blue Paul exhibited was shown in the late 1880s."

Many people claim that the Blue Paul is now extinct. It may very well be extinct in its pure form, but they were probably crossed with The Pit Bull Terriers in England and Ireland, and the Pit Bull Terriers were brought to America from Scotland. In 1857, McCaffrey imported the dog Spring from Glasgow, Scotland to America. At that time Glasgow was the center of Blue Paul activity. In 1858, in Rhode Island, Spring won a fight in 1 hour, 35 minutes. In 1859 he won a fight in 2 hours 15 minutes. In 1860, in Boston, he beat Tom Story's dog in 2 hours 40 minutes. Spring was bred to Maid of Erin, who was an imported bitch from Dublin Ireland and produced Young Spring. Young Spring won a fight in 1 hour 15 minutes. In 1862 he beat Sheffield George's dog in 3 hours 17 minutes, in New York. When Spring was bred to John Mahon's imported bitch he produced Jeff who won a fight in Providence, Rhode Island in 1 hour. He later won against miller's dog in 1 hour 10 minutes. In 1864 he won another fight in 1 hour 10 minutes. Dick, another son of Spring, won a fight against Spring's Hope in 1 hour 17 minutes. Power's Violet was imported to America from Scotland by her Scottish owner and, on January 10, 1892, beat a dog named Spright in Massachusetts. They fought at Catch weight. Her size, plus her name which indicates a dark blue color, leads to the possibility that she might have been a Blue Paul.

If the above dogs were Blue Pauls, their bloodline was surly continued in America and others were probably imported to America, England, and Ireland as well.
Brown also writes in his book that W.C. Roper bred some game dogs from stock sent to him by Jim Williams and Bob Wallace. Some of Roper's dogs were silver buckskin in color, such as Silver Jack and Roper's (William's) Silver. Roper's Silver won 4 fights at 58 pounds, and another Tudor's Black Jack (16xW) was, according to Earl Tudor, from a Delihant's Paddy/Wichita Mike bloodline. His sire was Black Tige who was sired by Blue Mike. Blue Mike was out of Miss Blue who was sired by Imported Roger out of Henry's Blue Mary. The sire of Blue Mike was Wichita Mike who was out of Henry's Blue Madge and sired by Henry's Black Demon. Several pages later he writes "As we have seen, Tudor's Black Jack was important to the Tacoma line but he was also important to the Ruffian line of American Staffordshire Terriers. He was not only important in the development of pit dogs, including the Dibo line, but he formed the basis for the Ruffian line".

Someone new to the breed always ask what the difference is between an AKC American Staffordshire Terrier, and a UKC or ADBA American Pit Bull Terrier? When told to the truth, the true history behind the breed most say they don't fight their dogs so why should they even have to know all that stuff? The truth is, if you own a Staffordshire or a American Pit Bull Terrier, it is irresponsible of you not to know the truth, the true history behind the breed.

In Richard Pascoe’s book, "The American Staffordshire Terrier" he mentions that there are five major lines in the foundation of the American Staffordshire Terrier. Tacoma, X-pert, Ruffian, Crusader, and "California" which is not actually a line, but a combination of lines. The Tacoma was developed by Charles Doyle and Al Brown beginning with the whelping of Tacoma Jack in 1927. The Tacoma line is influenced by Corvino blood early in its history. The Tacoma line is known for its courage and working ability.

The X-Pert line traces its pedigrees back to Colby, Feeley, Corrington, Tudor and Morris. Alberta and Cliff Ormsby began the line with the whelping of Ormsby's Madge in 1930. The Ruffian line was started by Clayton Harriman in 1938 with the whelping of The Ruffian, bred by F C Klump. The Ruffian line was influential in the development of many other lines, notably E C Ringold's Gallant line, beginning with CH Gallant Ruff and the Har-wyn line of Peggy Harper which finds its foundations in the breeding efforts of Harriman and Whittaker. One of her greats was CH Sky King of Har-Wyn ( half X-Pert). The California lines were strongly influenced by Ruffian and Gallant. Early breeders appearing in California pedigrees include Steele, Gregory, Freese, Farley, Wiswall and Harrison. CH Harrison's Bozo boy was bred by RC Steele and whelped in 1936. The Chatworth Kennels of Ray and Ina Harris include dogs of Freese, Harrison and Wakefield derivation. Rossmore's Naughty Knight, who sired the foundation of the Crusader line, was bred by Gladys Smith. The Crusader line was started in 1950 by Ike and Jean Stinson. In 1955, Smith's breeding of CH Rossmore's Naughty Knight x CH Gallant Susie Q produced CH Knight Crusader, CH Knight Bomber and CH Knight Patroller. All of these dogs played a major role in the development of the Crusader line. The development of all other kennels in the breed come from combinations of these original foundation lines. Notably Sertoma, Archer, Sierra, Tryarr, Willynwood, White Rock, to name a few.
 
Yes some can I don't know about those bulky ones Aka American Bullys actually right now im studing how do they genes occur of Blue fawns in Pits and Ambullys but yes you can get pure if its over large with thick body its eitheir a American bully or some pit cross mix breed if you ask me

---------- Post added at 01:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:42 PM ----------

Its rare on occasions for a blue pit to occur ina gam bred litter like Woody said thats just hear and their I have only seen one weighing at about 45 pounds very sturcktred game bred blue pit he had some of that Blue paul I could tell easily when I looked at his pedigree it had just had some eli with it as well
 

Rampage

Puppy
Other breeds...such as amstaffs?



Do you have proof of this? I'd like to see it if you do, but i'm sure you don't. Maybe your dogs papers are hung???

Maybe this should be moved. but here is what you requested.

In a letter to a newspaper, Dave Wilson wrote, "The 'Back 2 the Bullies' convention to be held tomorrow...is not for the 'celebration of the pit bull' as you allege; it is for public awareness of the American Bully. This is a new breed created more than 15 years ago, and it is a separate breed from the 'pit bull.' "We blended different breeds together to obtain certain desired traits. The American pit bull terrier was one of the breeds whose lineage is in the background of this breed, but it is by no means the only breed behind it. "Even the part of the lineage that is American pit bull terrier stems from United Kennel Club-registered conformation show dogs! There is also an American Kennel Club-registered show breed in the lineage of this breed called the American Staffordshire terrier. Some breeders even included some bulldog lineage into their breeding. This breed has been established for over 10 years now."

When you add oother breeds (mastiffs) and then keep them registered as APBT's thats paper hanging.
 

Miakoda

GRCH Dog
First off, let's not bash American Bulldogs (ABs) by referring to AmBullies as "ABs". An American Bully is NOT an AB and that breed has used the abbreviation for far longer. (sorry, but we've got several AB guests and viewers that get confused on here about it...including a friend of mine)

Second, the AmBully is not yet a breed due to breeders not being on the same page in breeding for a set-in-stone standard. "Big heads, large chests, etc" doesn't equal a standard. Hopefully they will get their act together, but I'm afraid that money rules that circle and that will be a HUGE hinderence in getting the dogs to become a uniform breed. But I wish them the best. And I wish the owners would start doing some health testing and stop thinking that bowed out elbows and badly proportioned shoulders looks "cool".

Third, even when you cross an AST to an APBT, you now have a mixed breed IMO. Both breeds have been bred for entirely different standards for well over 70 years. They are no longer the same.

And come on. 3 generations of breeding the largest to the largest still won't produce 80+ lb dogs consistently like outcrossing will. And that's exactly what AmBully breeders did, have done, and still do. Paper hanging is easy to do, it's existed in the past, and it exists in the present. Registries don't care because all they care about is the money; they aren't in the business of making sure people are honest and the dogs are areally as claimed.
 

Vicki

Administrator
Administrator
And, secondly, let's not bash American Bullys, as we have members on this forum who own this breed as well.

This is a diverse community, and you are adults. You are, or most of you are, capable of having a conversation with some semblance of intelligence.
 
And, secondly, let's not bash American Bullys, as we have members on this forum who own this breed as well.

This is a diverse community, and you are adults. You are, or most of you are, capable of having a conversation with some semblance of intelligence.
Thank you for that one!!!
 

Alma

GRCH Dog
Forum Rule #7
Be respectful. This is harder to define, but will be moderated. An example would be disrespecting pit bull owners who chose a blue dog over a red dog, and "sneering" at them or acting like they're idiots for the choice they made. If a moderator believes you are being purposefully disrespectful to a fellow member, you will be notified. Bashing for the sake of bashing will not be tolerated.
 

Rampage

Puppy
Im not knocking American Bullies. People need to understand the difference between an American Bully and APBT though. I think American Bully owners and breeders need to realize they are not APBT's and stop advertising them as such. Its clear they are mixed breeds and thats fine I just dont understand why people deny it and are just not proud of their breed.

Very nice post Miakoda I completly agree.