Bull Terriers as Moms/Dams.

[Hucklebutt]

Maybe not so much as old as I did not want to burden her .
I have long thought about fertilized by a surrogate mother method in vitro.
That was the only experiment in my country, and a geneticist is willing to do this.It could be go.(Is needed only the male semen and the female ovum).

WHOA!! That is friggin cool! How much would that cost! It would be a good idea, if it would not mess up the breed, cause bull terrier moms are not the best.

 

[Bullful]

"cause bull terrier moms are not the best."

Would you please explain your statement further and share with us any personal experience that you have had to substantiate this claim.

 

[Cynthia]

"cause bull terrier moms are not the best."

Would you please explain your statement further and share with us any personal experience that you have had to substantiate this claim.

I was thinking the same thing.

Again it depends on the individual dog. And that applies to how good of a mom the dog is. The health and condition of the animal. There are many factors involved in breeding. It is not that cut and dry. I have seen some dogs that are 2 and should not be bred due to condition.

 

[Hucklebutt]

i was told by lots and lots of people. had a discussion with some breeders at the show today about it.

they kill them, sit on them, most owners take pups away and bring them for feeding only. didnt realize i had a school teacher here to correct my every move, sorry should have said 'i heard by many they are known for not being good moms.' know of a breeder who stoped breeding cause there such bad mums.

again read it everywhere, heard about it from everyone, talked to more people about this breed than your mind could even imagine. probably not more than you, actually im sure not more. but i can say, hundreds.

 

[Ickle Dexter]

i was told by lots and lots of people. had a discussion with some breeders at the show today about it.

they kill them, sit on them, most owners take pups away and bring them for feeding only. didnt realize i had a school teacher here to correct my every move, sorry should have said 'i heard by many they are known for not being good moms.' know of a breeder who stoped breeding cause there such bad mums.

again read it everywhere, heard about it from everyone, talked to more people about this breed than your mind could even imagine. probably not more than you, actually im sure not more. but i can say, hundreds.

I was informed that too by the breeder that I bought my two from, that the mothers are not very attentive, clumsy and at times have suffocated the pups by accident.

My breeder has been breeding for thirty years so I guess you could say that its fairly true to what they are saying!

 

[jonnybegood]

I was thinking the same thing.

Again it depends on the individual dog. And that applies to how good of a mom the dog is. The health and condition of the animal. There are many factors involved in breeding. It is not that cut and dry. I have seen some dogs that are 2 and should not be bred due to condition.

I agree...

Hucklebutt each bitch is an individual..in all my 20 years of breeding Ive yet to lose a pup to the things you mention..and why you ask..my bitches are not seperated from thier pups and are raised in a heated whelping box in my home...a bitch will always try and keep her pups warm and will snuggle up to them to do so..when they are cold they will try and place her body right over them to keep them warm..some people raise pups outside with out supervision or sufficent warmth..mums need the best of care..there is also a medical condition called eclampsia that effects all breeds of dogs that must be watched out for and needs a vets immediate attention..this can be made worse by giving supplements during pregnancy..particulary vitamin d..then there is pain to contend with if a bitch has a cesar or gets mastitis this can make them quite unsettled too, infections can occur too.. overall the bull terriers Ive bred have been good mothers ..did I mention food they need quite a bit, a hungry bitch wont settle well either...theres a lot more to it than you think..but rather than go on and on spoil a picture topic...

 

[Justus]

About not good EB moms i hear this same.Not all but are cases where are not good moms .
Probably my bitch killed their pups (i think so).

 

[Hucklebutt]

jonny you take me for a moron and i do not appreciate that. all you mentioned are all things i know about. i spent 2 years working for a vet, please do not insult me. I am not ruining a picture thread, justus is a friend of mine. If I am lacking in information, I will read about it until my eyes bleed, and I will go to people with knowledge and ask for assistance in my ignorance. The only people to ruin a thread are those that belittle and insult others, and its not necessary.

 

[Mrpedigree]

I agree...

Hucklebutt each bitch is an individual..in all my 20 years of breeding Ive yet to lose a pup to the things you mention..and why you ask..my bitches are not seperated from thier pups and are raised in a heated whelping box in my home...a bitch will always try and keep her pups warm and will snuggle up to them to do so..when they are cold they will try and place her body right over them to keep them warm..some people raise pups outside with out supervision or sufficent warmth..mums need the best of care..there is also a medical condition called eclampsia that effects all breeds of dogs that must be watched out for and needs a vets immediate attention..this can be made worse by giving supplements during pregnancy..particulary vitamin d..then there is pain to contend with if a bitch has a cesar or gets mastitis this can make them quite unsettled too, infections can occur too.. overall the bull terriers Ive bred have been good mothers ..did I mention food they need quite a bit, a hungry bitch wont settle well either...theres a lot more to it than you think..but rather than go on and on spoil a picture topic...

Johnny if you have bred as long as you say and have never come across a bad bull terrier mum then you've been very lucky to say the least !
My family have bred bull terriers on and off since the late 1960s...my granddad bred them and my mother and father bred them !
I have owned and see my fair share of poor bull terrier mums over the years!
My mother had a bitch once kill three pups out of a litter of 8..just as my mum had been laying on the floor by the welping box and she just got up to turn the heat lamp off the bitch went wild and just culled three of the litter ...yet up until then she had been a good mum!

Sometime it is necessary to part the bitch from the litter!
Back last year my bitch had a litter of 11 for her first litter...after a 9 hour labor ...she started licking them etc then she just started panicking and trying to hurt them ! she was really going for them:no2:
What I had to do was what i see my mother do a couple of times ...and thats take the pups away from her and hand rear them on her every 2-3 hours !
I would do this until the pups were at least a couple of weeks old and stronger + she would of used to the pups by them !
That way i knew i had a better chance of all 11 living...10 of the 11 lived ...i lost one due to it having something wrong with his insides...but that being said 10 out of 11 was good and i am still proud of the work i put in to that litter to this day...but fcuk me it was hard work:lol:
The bull terrier mums i have known for the last 20 years ...some have been good mums others haven't !

 

[jonnybegood]

maybe not lucky why breed from bad mums in the first place, its a trait , good mums begat good mums.. ..however bullies are clumsy they can be agro due to eclampsia, they can be unsettled due to pain...Im with my girls 24/7 always there to help them if required and yes its hard work ..anyway back to the topic

hope your girl is feeling better soon

 

[Mrpedigree]

maybe not lucky why breed from bad mums in the first place, its a trait , good mums begat good mums.. ..

How do you find out if there good mums if they have never been bred from:confused:
Like i said their not all good mums ...some can turn out to right horrible mums !

 

[jonnybegood]

in some circumstances yes but you can always ask the breeder of the mother..long time breeders keep good records..

well thats my opinion and experience any way....its also based on the individual bitch and the care she recieves, though I do agree some can be handfull but certainly not all...Ive no more to say..

 

[Mrpedigree]

in some circumstances yes but you can always ask the breeder of the mother..long time breeders keep good records..

well thats my opinion and experience any way....its also based on the individual bitch and the care she recieves, though I do agree some can be handfull but certainly not all...Ive no more to say..

you said in another post of yours that you hope my dog was OK ?? do I know you or was you saying that to someone else??
I just say this because one of my girls has just had a c-section because she only had one pup in there....i just thought you might know me ??
Cheers

 

[Cynthia]

jonny you take me for a moron and i do not appreciate that. all you mentioned are all things i know about. i spent 2 years working for a vet, please do not insult me. I am not ruining a picture thread, justus is a friend of mine. If I am lacking in information, I will read about it until my eyes bleed, and I will go to people with knowledge and ask for assistance in my ignorance. The only people to ruin a thread are those that belittle and insult others, and its not necessary.

You have worked for a Vet for 2 years and are planning a breeding yourself and yet you have no idea what mastitis is or how to treat it.

Now again the Vet that I teched for in Atlanta has 2 BT and both of their dams were very good. You cannot say that about every dog plain and simple. I have 1 APBT that I had to hand raise her pup from 36hrs old. Tried to kill the pup. And another that would not have anything to do with the pups after they were 3 1/2 weeks old. And I have heard numerous stories from numerous APBT breeders that their bitch was horrible to. But I still can not make that blanket statement of every APBT.

It simply boils down to the individual dog and their circumstances.

 

[jonnybegood]

well said Cynthia..and whatever shes planning I just hope it all goes well for the animals involved..

hucklebutts ad
http://www.hobbybreeders.com/Puppies/BullTerrier1529.aspx

 

[Hucklebutt]

cynthia, your a very correct. I asked about the mastitis, since I never heard about it at the vet. When I asked, I actually went and did a bunch of reading on it, symptoms, treatment ect. So now, I do know about it, but thank you for your concern.

Jonny if you have issues with me please take it up with me PM, because you are acting insanely childish-grow up.

---------- Post added at 12:17 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:15 AM ----------

and when I do decide to breed my bitch, the out come will probably be better than what comes out of most people breedings.

I am seriously less tolerant today. I am teething, my wisdom teeth are coming in and I am crabby.

 

[jonnybegood]

hm basically I said the same as cynthia..dont know how you can interpret that as me having issues with you..you expressed an opinion I expressed mine based on a whole lot of experience too I might add..no need to pm.

in your puppy ad its says..what does that mean?

Age: -46 Days:

 

[Cynthia]

cynthia, your a very correct. I asked about the mastitis, since I never heard about it at the vet. When I asked, I actually went and did a bunch of reading on it, symptoms, treatment ect. So now, I do know about it, but thank you for your concern.

Jonny if you have issues with me please take it up with me PM, because you are acting insanely childish-grow up.

---------- Post added at 12:17 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:15 AM ----------

and when I do decide to breed my bitch, the out come will probably be better than what comes out of most people breedings.

I am seriously less tolerant today. I am teething, my wisdom teeth are coming in and I am crabby.

I am sorry for your pain. Wisdom teeth is very painful.

My concern no. I am really shocked that you have worked for a Vet and have not heard of mastitis. But then again if you weere on the job trained and only worked 2 years you may not have ran into it. But still it is a very common condition. But def somehting that you should be aware of if you are planning on breeding.

 

[Hucklebutt]

Your right cynthia, I did need to know that and thats why I educated myself. No we never saw it at the hosital, and I never had a case with it.

Jonny just some random days I put on there, and I am not talking with you about it anymore.

 

[Bullful]

I think she was trying to give the impression that the bitch is pregnant and dogs will be born in (46) days. The minus sign signifying that they have not yet arrived.

For those of you that have had incidences of bitches behaviour becoming aggressive towards puppies you may want to read the following article.
I myself experienced the onset of symptoms and was able to treat with CALSORB with no further problems. Additionally we gave the bitch a TUMS every 6 hours(4 X day) until the puppies were weaned.

This is an article written by Jerald F. Schreiber DVM on "Psuedo Eclampsia". Copy and paste this article into a word program and take it to the vets with you.

Medical peculiarities of the Bull Terrier
Jerald F. Schreiber DVM

The Hypocalcemic Bitch

This peculiarity of the Bull Terrier occurs in the bitch primarily around the time of whelping. It has, to my knowledge, not been reported in the current literature available to the veterinary profession.for this reason alone, you should find out if your veterinarian is thoroughly familiar with our breed; because if he or she is not, they will tend not to believe you. That is because we are trained in Veterinary College to ignore any facts presented to us by anyone below the rank of full professor.
The condition manifests itself very differently from classical eclampsia in several different ways.

1.Classical Hypocalcemia (eclampsia / puerperal
tetany) - Will first be manifested by a high fever, as high as 107*F, but more common around 104*. This usually does not follow in the Bull Terrier.The temperature in the BT will usually be slightly elevated or normal.

2.Classical Hypocalcemia most often occurs at the time of the highest calcium usage, i.e. : 10-12 days after whelping (due to the large amount of milk being taken by the puppies). In the BT, hypocalcemia usually occurs within 24 hours + or - to whelping, although this is not a hard
and fast rule.

3. Classical Hypocalcemia usually results in a frantic bitch who acts normally or overprotective towards her pups, while in the BT we usually see a frenzy and at times will attempt, (and will ,if she gets the chance)to cannibalize her puppies without any regard for her own safety. The preclude to this awful event will be familiar to the experienced breeder. The bitch will stare at her puppies strangely as if they were some sort of vermin (mice or rats?).Probably the low Ca level in the blood interferes with recognition patterns, and she is in actuality hallucinating.

Now that you can recognize this dreaded condition, how do you prepare for it when it rears it's ugly head? Also, how can we possibly prevent it?
First my personal observation is that bitches who are over supplemented during their pregnancy with Vitamin D or A & D combinations (cod liver oil) and put on medium to high levels of supplement (bone-meal, di-calcium phosphate, etc.) are the ones who seem most prone to this- so DON'T use anything extra during the pregnancy.

It is all right to supplement after the pups are born. Calcium gluconate is the drug of choice for classical eclampsia by veternanirians world-wide.But what do you do if your Bully bitch is not showing classical symptoms, and he refuses to give the treatment because he has never encountered this problem and has no backup in writing in his references; or she doesn't have a fever; or she's not convulsing; or is not showing the typical sign of eclampsia?
CALPHOSAN solution can be given intramuscularly, subcutaneously, or intravenously. This means that with a modicum of training you can give the treatment yourself and not have the hassle of fighting with someone who is ignorant of your problem while you have an acute emergency; 5cc is the usual dose, and when given under the skin, the bitch will return to normal in about 15-20 minutes. In severe cases, I give 5cc Intramuscularly and 5cc Subcutaneously and repeat in one hour. Follow-up treatment consists of using CORTISONE-USP 25mg/tab. One tablet two or three times daily until the puppies are weaned. DON'T USE: Prednisone, Prednisalone, Triamcinalone or Dexmethasone - these highly refined steroids will NOT work here. I use good old-fashioned Cortisone precisely because it has all those bad side effects; 1) It mobilizes Calcium from the bones to the blood, 2) It makes them hungry, and 3) It makes them thirsty.
So now you are armed with knowledge that even your own veterinarian may not have. Use it to good
effect.

Comments and Observations:
If a bitch exhibits this once, she may never show it again. On the other hand, if she's never shown
it, it is just as likely to show up unexpectedly (unannounced, of course). I do not know what triggers it, and I do not feel that this is an inherited problem in a simple dominant or recessive fashion.
Gerald Schreiber, DVM