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Bull terrier continues winning ways

Discussion in 'Bull Terrier' started by Vicki, Oct 31, 2009.

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  1. Leslie H

    Leslie H Good Dog

    How about if I mourn the dog of the 1800's?

    ---------- Post added at 10:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:49 PM ----------


    Frances Mabel Hollams - Candy a Bull Terrier 1947
  2. Hucklebutt

    Hucklebutt Banned Back Yard Breeder

    put on a weight pulling harness? they wont try to put it on unless they've experianced it.

    :confused: Thats not athletic at all. Those are no signs of athletic ability in a dog.

    she was probably compulsive because it was probably all she had to do with her time and proves how high energy she was and how desperately she was asking for help.
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 26, 2009
  3. Hucklebutt

    Hucklebutt Banned Back Yard Breeder

    bullful ran off the the internation bull terrier forum to complain of us and our evil athletic bull terriers. :lol: of course-they all think as she does there.
  4. Leslie H

    Leslie H Good Dog

    I can't blame her, in a way. From her perspective, we are people w/no appreciation of the correct BT. We found fault with her dog, and her practices. I don't think those of us who value athleticism in any breed would see eye to eye w/the majority of AKC conformation oriented people.
    I do appreciate that she loves her dog, and that she does therapy work with him. And, I do hope that she doesn't throw the rest of the bull breeds under the bus when questioned about them.
  5. CoolHandJean

    CoolHandJean Krypto Super Dog

    Good points, Leslie.

    Yeah, I always get sad when I see AKC labs or any type of working dog. Look at what is happening to the poor GSD.
  6. Hucklebutt

    Hucklebutt Banned Back Yard Breeder

    yup-and they think there doing the best thing for the breed. :(

    dang i just got banned from there again...gotta download that software that hides my ip address. lol.
  7. Bullful

    Bullful Little Dog


    Firstly, I am a fan of all bull breeds and would not throw them under the bus ever.
    We have done many meet the breeds appearances at pet fairs and larger venues such as the recent AKC Meet The Breeds at Jacob Javitt's Center in NYC this Oct.
    We support the local SPCA and a few multi-breed rescue organizations. All monies that he has earned for his appearances have gone to those rescue organizations.
    We preach PUNISH THE DEED, NOT THE BREED and Rufus has been used to fight and reverse BSL in some towns. At a fundraising appearance in Rhode Island last year almost every dog there (mostly Pit's) was adopted out while Rufus was appearing in the shelter. Our love of the breeds will not change because of a few unkind postings.
    I, Rufus' dad, have no problem at all with an athletic dog. I prefer them for all the same health reasons. I have stood ringside many a time and commented that it looked like a Jenny Craig meeting. I do however abhor those that get all excited about "game bred" bullies that will continue on even with broken legs. You have a few people on here that just look to create controversy. They post and bait people to create hot topics where they can brag about their "athletic dogs"and post the same photos over and over. Why are there no photos of the dogs with children or other animals?
    When asking a question on various forums they fail to acknowledge the experience and knowledge shared with them by long time breeders. They just become argumentative, resorting to name calling and cursing. Then they post under multiple identities because at a rather quick rate moderators and other listees see them for what they are and ban them. Just what is their motive? The best interest of the breed whether that means small, agile, light boned, and ready for strenuous activity or larger, heavy boned, bullish and willing to go for a long slow walk and then a cuddle on the couch. Is there really any problem with either as long as you keep them both out of aggressive situations that some thrive on to make up for their own lack of athletic ability and small anatomical and cerebral parts.
    I just want to make one thing clear... I did not start this thread "Bull Terrier continues winning ways". I have no need to brag about my dog or his accomplishments. I just posted to show that he enjoys doing much more than just "trotting around the showing" pogoing in the rear.
    It is a shame that almost every topic reverts to "my" athletic, game, driven BT, usually dominated by the same few individuals whose dog can do 15 times more than any KC showdog.
    Their discussion might have just a bit more validity if they took a minute to check their spelling also. Reflects directly on their level of education.
  8. Leslie H

    Leslie H Good Dog

    Requisite dog with children. I don't have many of these, due to respecting student confidentiality.

    This makes me very happy. I believe that all dog owners, but particularly those with bull breeds, need to stand together.
    My personal frustration is not with you or Rufus as individuals. It saddens me to see dog's structure so distorted that the dog cannot move or function in a relatively effortless fashion. This is not aimed at BT's in particular, it's for border terriers that can't be spanned, gun dogs whose flowing coat doesn't allow them to go through brush, or dogs that can only reproduce with the assistance of AI and c-sections. Then, this is further compounded by the AKC ring's demand for dogs that are overweight. I don't know how closely, if at all, this ties to the average pet being overweight. But, if AKC dogs are supposed to represent the pinnacle of dogdom, at least in regards to conformation, can't they promote dogs that are in good physical condition?
    I'm a Special Education teacher. Spelling doesn't correlate with much, either education or intelligence. It's a particularly discrete skill. In my case, it just represents computer ineptitude.
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 27, 2009
  9. Hucklebutt

    Hucklebutt Banned Back Yard Breeder

    As I stated before there is no need for a game bull terrier-none. DOG FIGHTING IS ILLEGAL. No one here fights there dogs Bullful, you get it all twisted.

    Bullful I have 4 dogs, 2 bull terriers, a small 8 pound chihuahua mix and a pit bull mix. My rescue dogs are altered. I also have a cat. My entired pack of animals live happily together, with no agression problems. I post pictures of my dogs working out, because its rarely seen with the bull terriers. After all this talk and I am pretty dang sure you don't understand the purpose of this conversation. Rufus is a great dog no doubt about it. But he makes everyone believe all bull terriers should be over weight and bulky. By doing this you make people think its the only way the breed should be. Therefor pushing aside the athletic smaller boned dogs, they will be extinct. And the over weight ones will be all that there is left. And by breeding dogs with the same characteristics will creat a breed that will no longer be able to be called 'gladiator.' Why is it a man on the bull terrier international forum says he likes athletic dogs but the lazy puppies dont get returned? That is pathetic and a definite answer to why some of you do this. Another one said he likes athletic bull terriers but does not need his dogs to have drive. :confused: thats a$$ backwards. but yes-my grammar is poor sometimes, i get lazy and tired all that time i spend running with my dogs. :D
  10. Bullful

    Bullful Little Dog

    Hi Leslie,

    Nice photo but I don't think that this is a photo of an EBT which is the breed being discussed. It has been my experience that AST's, Pit's and Staffies are of a mindset of what can I do for you, they live to please their master. Conversely EBT's are all about what you, can do for them. JMHO

    Thanks for having the patience and heart to do the job you do! God Bless you!

    For the final time this thread was about Bull Terrier continues winning ways, not about size, weight, drive, gameness or 15 things my dog can do better than a KC dog. I understand that it has become a dump on any dog that doesn't look the same as "your" preferred type. Can you justify the lack of type and the non comformance to the Bull Terrier Standard that some of these dogs display by the negative comments posted towards all show dogs.

    Because inexperienced first time? owners, unfamiliar with the higher energy levels and the term "A tired bully is a happy bully" get overwhelmed and frustrated with those puppies, and they either end up being returned or placed into rescue.
    If a dog enjoys walking , jogging, hiking, or just hanging out with you why does it need "DRIVE" unless you are competing in a performance sport.
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 28, 2009
  11. Hucklebutt

    Hucklebutt Banned Back Yard Breeder

    bullful please do not misunderstand me my comments are most certainly not to all show dogs. infact-to no show dogs at all. i am only speak of the humans behind them and the judges making the standard. everyone is entitled to there opinion and what they like. personally I love a nice full curved bull terrier-it does add uniqueness. I only don't like that they prefer them fat and that some are possible breeding just for that, and lazy dogs.
  12. Hucklebutt

    Hucklebutt Banned Back Yard Breeder

    Bullful I would like to point out something to you if you dont mind.

    You need drive in a dog for more than you think. Any animal or fat human can walk around the block. I know of some very fat people who can walk in a shopping mall for several hours, but would die if they tried to run around it once-they lack the drive. A driven dog is not a bad thing, as you may see it. Border collies use drive to move the sheep, hunting dogs use drive to find the fowl, gaurd dogs use drive to protect there masters. And yet you all can be proud thats your creating a driveless dog-which ultimately makes him have no purpose in life. Bull terriers were not originally bred to be a companion dog. What happened to the old days when someone said 'this is a high energy breed they need several hours of exercise a day.' did that just fly out the window?

    It occured to me by some research I have done that show fanciers are ending up with a scary amount of dogs with spinning/fly biting, males who do not breed naturally and females who do not have the stamina or drive, to get through labor. It only makes me wonder why my friend and I's dogs do not have these problems? But it seems those with show dogs, there problems are popping all over the place. This concerns me, that you may not be breeding such healthy dogs that you think you are. Another thing is no one wants to breed dogs naturally anymore, if you dont allow them to breed how will you ever know if they can accomplish it on there own? you dont think a dog might need drive to get through labor? and that possibly that is why some can not do it? why is it that I see so many bull terriers dieng prematurely. Dray had one die early (I cant remember why) and another on the international forum named Thor. I know there are others..none of this is alarming? What is the one thing my dogs do that most of the show worlds dogs do not do? Exercise-long, hard exercise.

    I would just like to say I am done with this thread, I appologize for taking it over, and I hope you will read this.
  13. Kingy

    Kingy Puppy

    Drive & Stamina have 2 completely different meanings

    Whilst i do not believe all Bull Terriers lack Drive i do believe they lack the Stamina to acheive some of the tasks expected by some members of this forum. Yes they have become structually heavier over the years but this does not make all of them fat.

    The BT is the Gentlemans companion.....correct me if i'm wrong (or at least he is where we live)

    Drays dog unfortunately suffered Kidney failure i believe.....or was it that he was just too lard arsed to get out of his bed and he starved to death :rolleyes:
  14. AmberABCg

    AmberABCg Puppy

    <<Another thing is no one wants to breed dogs naturally anymore>>

    My reasoning for doing artificial insemination is because a bull terrier is a TERRIER. While I am still learning what some people refer to as 'game', many AKC champion bull terriers and those in the show ring still have a high 'prey drive'. I choose not to do a natural breeding to protect both of the animals from any injury they might incur from one another, although many 'show ' people also do natural breedings; it's not uncommon in the states nor other countries.

    I respect Rufus and his owners for being proactive in breed representation and also in their selective breeding program. They could have made money on breeding Rufus to everyone who paid the stud fee, but instead chose to require UPC values, echocardiogram, BAER testing done before selecting a mate, and did not overbreed their dog. How many can say in their position they would do the same?

    <<It occured to me by some research I have done that show fanciers are ending up with a scary amount of dogs with spinning>>

    This struck a chord with me, as I read your comments on another bt neurological forum on which you stated that while you hadn't owned with a spinner, you had retrained several. The three spinners and two severe OCD dogs that I have had in my house over the past 14 years, came through rescue and were from breeders who did not health test nor show their dogs. (I don't care if you show or not, but health test to better the bull terrier breed!) To have FIVE truly ill dogs who displayed this behavior due to genetics and not thyroid or learned behavior, etc is shameful. Since there is extensive scientific research being done by doctors, veterinarians, and certified behaviorists in conjunction with bull terrier owners and breeders, I am curious if the research that you have done has been learned through Dr Alice Moon-Fanelli at Tufts University or just by reading online forums from which you were banned?

    I appreciate this forum (among others) for the differing opinions. While we may not now or ever agree, we can open our minds to other points of view which I believe can only make our breed stronger. What makes a forum informative and human beings intelligent, is the ability for those who ask questions or voice opinions to HEAR and LISTEN to what the other side says.
  15. Hucklebutt

    Hucklebutt Banned Back Yard Breeder

    I stand by what I say. Health testing is important. but the fact that most show dogs are over weight stands. The fact that they dont like driven dogs is true. And they like it this way so there puppies arent returned. And I firmly believe, exercise the dog, it will stop spinning. Worked for the ones I helped cure. Inever said Drays dog was a lard ass, but that he died from a premature death.

    ---------- Post added at 06:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:37 PM ----------

    i also suggest that amber or kingy go to the 'why did we change the bull terrier' thread to hear points from mr clueless and barry for more points i would like to see there responses from as I will just be repeating myself.
  16. Kingy

    Kingy Puppy


    I never said that you did say Dray's dog was a lard arse but you are implying majority of BT's have no drive and are fat. You then go on to point out that Dray lost one of his dogs at a young age :confused:

    I have read the "why did we change the Bull Terrier" thread and have also done the rounds with Mr Clueless before now. This debate will never cease & has been on many threads & i presume it will continue to be on many more.

    Whilst i agree there is no need to have an over weight dog of any breed & nobody can deny the BT has become a larger specimen over the years I do not understand your obsession with "drive" everyone/thing has drive or they wouldn't move...to go for a run, swim, play catch in the yard this is excercise & excercise most Bullies manage without issues, the need for a Bullie to have so much drive it goes crazy for something is IMO in todays times not a good trait to have in such a powerful breed and as for the need to weight pull....i don't know much about the sport but if i needed an animal to do that i'd buy a horse.

    Gameness is another much loved topic here, in England why oh why would anyone want a game dog :confused: I suppose if they don't go out running, swimming ect and are just locked in their yard pulling weights then thats ok but i like to walk my dog in the countryside where he loves running free with his 4 legged friends. there are lots of irresponsible dog owners who live local to me & their dogs are always on the roam, i wouldn't find it a pleasure to walk a dog who i thought might eat my neighbours poodle as it came running over......nor would i wish for my children to encounter such a thing. The BT needs to be shown in the best possible light to ensure it doesn't end up down the same road as the APBT.

    Sorry i have gone off cue a little but there's "us" & "you's" and all the BT needs to be well balanced, happy & healthy is a little bit of both!
  17. Bullful

    Bullful Little Dog

    Well said Kingy,

    Just out of curiosity how many of you hit your heads on the door frame or have to bend over when going into the basement of a house over 150 yrs old. Yes everything has gotten bigger except the dollar.
    Better food, vitamins, and medical care have also lead to an increase in the size of humans in the last 150 yrs. Of course sitting behind the keyboard of a computer and a desk all day, playing nintendo and Wii games, watching t.v. with a remote control, and supersized meals have also added to the girth of both adults and our children. Perhaps we should also start breeding down for smaller humans. Just how tall were the AZTECS?
    Smaller carbon foot print, smaller sizes in clothing, smaller homes, smaller cars to transport smaller people and their lighter load.
    People of the past were more game, playing all sorts of sports outdoors after school, walking 6 blocks to the school instead of taking the bus.
    Would that be less driven?;-)
    Hucklebutt- If you have a problem with size, get your group together, join the BTC/BTCA, petition the club for a change to the approved written Bull Terrier Standard to include a maximum size and then allow the membership to vote on your proposal.

    ---------- Post added at 10:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:48 PM ----------


    In all my years on forums I have not seen anyone that contradicts themselves more than you.
    You become somewhat civil when taken to task or proven incorrect. Then you become defensive and even offensive when your point is not accepted. Has your being thrown off other forums multiple times made you stop and think at all about your presentation or topics of conversation.

    If you feel so strongly that what you are breeding is the true BT then bring your dogs out and into the show ring and have them evaluated against the "Standard".
    Show us what you are breeding. Let the ringside applause of the BT fanciers be the judge of your dogs and breeding program.

    Or just continue to hide behind multiple screen names and post attacks on anyone or anything that doesn't fit your ideal.

    And continue posting like a school child...bullful ran off the the internation bull terrier forum to complain of us and our evil athletic bull terriers. :lol: of course-they all think as she does there.
  18. Hucklebutt

    Hucklebutt Banned Back Yard Breeder

    Your breed standard is very sad. Dogs dont make them fat-humans do. I also dont 'breed' dogs. I couldn't win in a show ring my dogs dont look like fat dinosaurs.

    I only have one screen name. If you have any questions if this is true you can contact Purple and ask her.

    Your are just as much the school child-crying to your international forum where of course-you all think equally.

    I have nothing else to say to kingy except to each is there own. If you all have good points please express them to anyone else other than me on the other threds cause im rather bored of this subject now.
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 29, 2009
  19. Teal

    Teal Krypto Super Dog Premium Member

    You mean, like these?



    And under stimulation..

    I could go ON and on ;)

    The point is - Rufus is fat.
    Yes, he is creating a good image to the general public - they don't know any better anyways.
    Most people don't like fat dogs. Let alone fat dogs that SHOULD be athletic, like a bull and terrier breed.

    Yes, Rufus is to the AKC standard. The AKC standard is flawed! Anything that asks dogs to be fat, dogs back legs to be raked, and working breeds to become non-functional is not okay with me. But, that doesn't matter - so long as they can prance in the ring and win ribbons, right?

    I have shown and plan to show AKC - but only because I want to kick ass in the show ring on Saturday, and on the coursing field on Sunday!

    Multi-purpose dogs, people.. what a concept!

  20. Hucklebutt

    Hucklebutt Banned Back Yard Breeder

    Truth is we love to see athletic bull terriers, we like to see them in great physical condition as its healthier for them, and a tired dog is a happy dog. a dog can get used to a life on the sofa, but than get up to chase its tail, is not healthy. im not saying these dogs dont play ball or run about, i know they do. but to feed them 2,3,4, times the amount of food they need to win a ribbon is depressing. as i said before, it does NOTHING for the dog but it does plenty to boost the ego for the human. Nothing wrong with being proud of your dog for winning in the show, but to go backwards in health is wrong. If you look at Maximus bull terrier kennel and see his Male 'Thor' this is a show quality dog, with an amazing physical condition.






    I dont have any kids so ya... lol

    ---------- Post added at 02:04 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:59 AM ----------

    The only thing I have left to say before closing myself out of this thread for good is, when my dogs are older like 8ish im going to go ahead and let them get a little chunky. obese no way, but chunky, yes. it was a good talk, i enjoyed it. I've said all that I needed to say now. I love all bull terriers fat or not, kiss the bullies on the nose for me. :)
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 29, 2009
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