Breeding out DA

Hey y'all! Long time no chat!
I do have a question for some of those that may be in the "know"
I was just recently told by someone that has oodoes of friends in the breed that claims breeders are now taking into consideration DA and trying to breed it "out. "
Care to shed some light?
Thanks in advance for any feedback.

 

Yeh and which breeders are these? There are a comparatively VERY small handful of people who hunt their dogs and take it into some consideration. But most people actively claiming and advertising that they're "breeding out DA" are back yard breeders catering to the overly inflated furmom pet market and have ZERO business doing so.

 

I think one has to speak of "dog aggression" in context.
Most terriers are dog aggressive. Many working breeds are.

I know many good working APBTs and ASTs that are "dog aggressive" but are also very confident and can be taught to focus and be worked at the highest level around other dogs. You sure would not want to take them to a dog park though. In fact, my bravest dogs -- forced to defend themselves when called upon -- are the hardest ones to shut down once engaged. Are they "dog aggressive"? Sure, but not rashly so and not instantly aggressive around anything with hair. Dog aggression can often mask insecurity -- being more of a threat display. Yeah, that's dog aggression too, but I don't want a bunch of that around either.
Dog aggression for the sake of dog aggression really doesn't mean much. Unless accompanied by confidence, it's fairly useless. Dog aggression does not equal gameness or ability!

I think sometimes those that say they are breeding out dog aggression think they are saying they are breeding out dogs that want to fight. Not necessarily. As mentioned, saying that is just another catch phrase. You can have dogs that don't do much in the way of showing "dog aggression", but will still fight very well when called upon.

 

Absolutely. And that isn't what APBTs are about at all, or rather, shouldn't be.

Completely agree. See, and you thought it wasn't possible.

AND therein lies the problem. This is exactly what most people claiming to be "breeding out DA" and selling these dogs to the public are saying. They're all but marketing their dogs as "Labradors in 'Pit Bull' suits."

 

That sounds like someone is blowing smoke. Pop over to game dog forum ask that same question.

 

If you breed out a well-known, mostly-accepted behavioral trait of the dogs, wouldn't you essentially create a new breed? This goes for any breed with a specific trait or set of traits that are altered over time through generations of selective breeding.

Another comment: If someone is breeding for dog tolerant/friendly/social/etc. dogs, are they also paying particularly close attention to prey drive or does that go out the window as well? What about health and health testing? With an acceptable human-interacting temperament? Plus the structure that's necessary to carry on the physical requirements on the APBT. Put all of it into a single basket and how many dogs do you really end up with that are acceptable into this kind of breeding program?

I really don't know. Just spitballing a couple ideas I had about the topic.

 

Whew! How long can it last?

 

I wish pitbulls weren't known to be DA. One of the reasons I was hesitant to adopt my pup was because it is hard to have a DA dog, especially living in the city, with parks and tons of dogs around. We took him to the dog park since he was 3 mo old to socialize so we will see how he will come out as he matures. However I feel like people concentrate on DA specifically in pitbulls and ignore DA in other dogs. I have seen numerous VERY DA labs at a dog park, but people literally laugh it off (and labs are large dogs that can maul a smaller dog just like any other dog) saying "oh, he's cranky today". There is a large Labradoodle, 95lbs, who is very protective of his ball and pretty much bares teeth at any dog that gets near. Last time we were there, I heard screams and growling and a dog screaming. The labradoodle was full on attacking a smaller dog and making it scream, it took several people to get him away and it was a pretty ugly scene. Guess what, they still take him there! My Loki was attacked by 2 extremely DA husky mixes and the owner KNEW that they were DA cause he was holding them close and not letting them loose. My poor pup was terrified and ran for me. A guy's rescue American Bulldog (clearly not a pitbull, huge, long legs, pretty much a very typical bulldog) attacked a husky. The husky was ok, but it was a scary scene. Later on a park's FB page the husky owner wrote that she was attacked by a pitbull. What! I was there, and he wasn't a pitbull! If they were pitbulls, all hell would break loose! So yeah, I am very hesitant going to the dog park now (btw, there are tons of pitbull mixes of all ages there as it's the only pit friendly dog park in the city.)

 

Here's the thing. Not every breed is intended to be, or should be, suitable for every lifestyle. Your dog, whether an actual APBT or a bull breed mutt, does not belong at a dog park. Full stop. There are multitudes of other breeds that are suitable for things like dog parks and "doggie daycare," and a breed that was specifically selectively bred to fight other dogs (and greatly enjoy doing so!) is not among them. The reasons for that should be obvious. There is an astronomical difference between the average so-called "dog aggressive" Labrador, and a dog-aggressive APBT. Accept the breed you own for what it is and has a very realistic inherited potential to be, not what you "wish," and learn what it takes to responsibly own and manage it. Dog breeds are not simply the same core animal with interchangeable fur suits.

 

I stopped, but for a different reason- too many people with aggressive dogs, questionable dog health, etc there. I took him when he was a pup, and I think it is crucial for a young dog that age to socialize with other dogs/people. We now have a yard where he can run around, but I obviously still take him for walks around the neighborhood and around the city.
What can you say about all these numerous people who bring their pitbulls to the dog park? A lot of the dogs are older, some are senior. The owners said never an incident. Not trying to argue, just wondering.

 

Socialization means setting a puppy up for positive experiences through selective, controlled interaction with people and situations. It doesn't mean hauling a puppy to an off-leash free-for-all. While important for other reasons, socialization of any sort also does nothing to prevent dog-aggression in breeds genetically predisposed to be dog-aggressive.

Those owners are foolish. If I decide to play Russian roulette, I may pull the trigger and find that nothing happens, but it doesn't mean I'm not an idiot for putting the gun to my head in the first place.

 

I think they imply bully breeds when they say pitbull, but it's stupid when any dog with a blocky head gets called that. Real documented and papered APBT are rare these days, it seems, especially in the city since there is no real use for the work ability. Where I live there are TONS of BYBs, it's ridiculous, and all want pitbulls for a wrong reason. When it comes to APBTs its funny cause they are really medium sized dogs with ears usually left intact (from my observations), majority of the generic crowd that uses the generic term would not associate APBTs with their image of a pitbull. My Loki is a mutt with what looks to be some APBT blood and people have been shocked to hear that he is a pitbull mix. I've got "but he is not really massive" and "but he has floppy ears" (as if dogs are born without ears, LOL). I stopped taking him to the dog park because people bring their aggressive dogs there to socialize lately and because they are not pitbulls, its perfectly fine by them. Also saw a very DA American Bulldog attack a husky. The husky was ok, just scared, but the owner wrote on FB that her dog was attacked by a pitbull (ughh! I was there, it wasn't a pitbull!) My pup is only 9 mo and has never been DA, but after reading that it might come in later, I don't want to risk it.

 

You can never breed it out completely imo.You do however get a dog sometimes that isn't DA. If he is a good dog and u decide to breed him more than likely the DA will show up in the offspring.The difference in people who hunt and don't hunt is the ones that do hunt just don't care if the dog is DA.Its not a trait that makes or breaks what a Bulldog is capable of accomplishing.Its just not of any real importance as the deciding factor lies in if the dog can win.DA has always came with the territory .Read some history from the likes of Colby and Don .Mr Colby would place pups with non hunters and would tell them , if this pup starts acting up be sure to bring he or she back to me and ill give you another one.Of course he knew they would turn on eventually.

 

I don't think just being a good dog is a prerequisite to breed, the pitbull mix is so overpopulated it's a terrible idea. I'm glad they snip them on adoption, my Loki was done at 3 mo cause that's when we found him. He is a pet and will forever be one (I live in the city, no hunting or hogs here), not looking to find homes for 8-9 pitbulls. Some guy posted on here about a pitbull he rescued, then was selling it's pups on FB. Lowest of low, imho.

 

The breed should have never been put in the hands of the GP.They were not intended to be in pet homes .I do understand the problem with the mixes as most of you were prob not part of the problem and have good intentions by doing a rescue or adoption.Research and study still needs to be done before doing either , if not you wind up being part of the problem.Library food.

 

They were never "put" in pet homes, people irresponsibly started backyard breeding them, resulting in a population explosion. People who rescue and adopt are mopping up the messes that morons make. Research and study for what?? I know I'm not part of the problem, the problem is some asshole that threw away my dog when he was 3 mo old. They probably have 7 or 8 more.