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breeding debate, opinion?

Discussion in 'Dog Debates' started by ganja, Jul 22, 2011.

  1. ganja

    ganja Good Dog

    hey folks :)

    how do ya'll feel about breeding your dogs and use the money you made selling the pups to afford a better stud on the female?

    I got in a debate on another forum with this chick who just starts getting into breeding because she bred her two amstaffs (quite fine looking animals with nice peds though) so she'd be able to afford a better stud to put on her bitch
    her exact words showing pics of the pups were
    "this is the littre I just did to be able to afford another, better stud"

    I just don't agree with it.. so I say what I have to say (another member already did also) and I said I didn't agree with the breeding.
    she started twisting around my words and "they aren't a perfect fit (which is according to HER postings) so they shouldn't be bred" were turned into "your dogs are ugly and unworthy of being bred"
    I told her that her dogs could even produce an entire littre of Gr Ch's that wouldn't change the reason behind the breeding which I feel is totally wrong.

    she tried to use another members breeding practice to justify the breeding because the other member also uses (some of) the money of the produced pups when she has to use an outside stud. which isn't the problem. lol
    good breeders do a breeding because they think both dogs are a great fit and they want to; and think they will produce great pups. they do not do a sub par breeding to pay for a better breeding!
    they just use the money they made with the selling of the pups because their next pick (wether male of female) to breed to happens to be a dog that isn't from their kennel, which is IMO totally different than what she does! (breeding to an inferior stud to use the money for a better stud to put on the bitch)

    I also told her that the dogs weren't a perfect fit (according to her, "to pay for a breeding with a BETTER stud", thus insinuating the stud used now is inferior to the one she wanted to use) so that was another reason she shouldn't have bred the dogs.

    anyways, seeing how it was impossible to have a normal discussion where she wouldn't twist my words or take what I said out of context I just left it at that.. I got sick of it after 4 posts lol

    what's your opinion on the matter?
  2. MJJean

    MJJean GRCH Dog

    I'm surprised you didn't mention that if she couldn't afford a "better stud" it would be reasonable to assume she couldn't afford an emergency resulting from the pregnancy or among the newborn pups..

    No, I do not think a breeder should breed a litter to pay for ANYTHING, much less a "better stud" to breed another litter. How stupid is that? Maybe produce some not so hot pups and ruin your reputation? Herp derp.
  3. retro

    retro Little Dog

    well, another way to look at it is this - all the money made from the dogs goes back into the "dog fund" rather than being spent on the other 99% of life's expenses. within that model, yes, puppy sales would cover the cost of a later breeding. sometimes it's how people say things, not what they say, because one breeder can have a business model & be commended for it, but someone else can describe the same thing differently and be castigated for it.
  4. MJJean

    MJJean GRCH Dog

    Maybe, Retro, but the point is she bred a bitch to a less than ideal male just to make money to afford a better stud. How is this any different from what other BYB's are doing? If you are knowingly breeding dogs that aren't perfect for each other then you are irresponsibly breeding.
  5. destinoscelgo

    destinoscelgo Good Dog

    Im not very well informed on breeding practices, but I can even tell you that sounds like something a byb would do. basically sounds like someone whos breeding dogs to afford their rent.
    Now the question is...once she can afford the better stud will she be considered a byb? or just a breeder with questionable methods?
  6. 6pack1%er

    6pack1%er Good Dog

    Why pay a stud fee at all? Why not breed the stock you have and use what you have bred?
    I have never and will never pay a stud fee. If you breed two dogs and one has traits that you don't like or the pedigree is one that you don't find favorable, then why have the dog in the first place.
  7. MJJean

    MJJean GRCH Dog

    Good point, 6pack.
  8. visiongee

    visiongee Little Dog

    I have always been the kind that says who am I to judge, life is not a courthouse if you dont want someone telling you how to live and what to do then dont do it to others.
    Me personally it makes sense if paying a stud fee is something they need to do I mean what if the dog was already tightly bred it happens all the time somebody gets two dogs their fam dogs they breed them and fall in love with a pup deside to keep it sooner or later when the parents pass 9 times out of ten they are going to need a studd. What if the blood or studd he is looking for is really expensive. I respect your opinion and its a bummer when people twist words around and make you look like the bad guy. No worries
  9. ganja

    ganja Good Dog

    of course, the person she used to compare her practices to does invest some of the amount (if not entirely) on a future breeding if need be.
    the difference lies in the fact that a good breeder, IMO, would do a breeding because he thinks it will produce great pups and that should be it.
    not because it will produce great pups (while knowing there is and wanting another better male to breed with) that will pay for the better stud.
    because the dogs are quite nice like I said.. it's just a shame the reasons behind it seem to be screwed up. plus she knew there was a better male available to breed that bitch to.

    oh the dog was a great example with a good looking ped.. but from her own words, there was a better male available but instead of waiting, she decided to breed her bitch to that male to pay for the future stud fee with the better male. I don't know.. I wouldn't per say use the term BYB, but just that she rushed things, which isn't always a good choice when you try to make a name and just start breeding dogs.

    I don't consider her a BYB per se like I said, but definately a breeder that, this time, used the wrong methods (IMO of course).

    because if you have better stock available that you can use, IMO you should go for it if your goal is to improve the breed .
    not everyone buys young adults or prospects, and pups don't always turn out to be good breeding stock or even good dogs.

    reply's in bold
  10. Sagebrush

    Sagebrush Good Dog

    Because the best stud for your female won't necessarily be in your back yard.

    Many breeders are careful to not get trapped into the ease of just using what's in the yard.*

    Many people don't keep stud dogs at all, choosing to concentrate on keeping good bitches .... and then looking for and finding the best FOR that female from a wide open field of stud dogs!

    This is true for throroughbreds and many other species.


    JRSPITS Big Dog

    I personally wouldn't do it. Anytime you breed your female it could be her last, things don't always have a happy ending. If I lose my bitch and have to bottle feed a whole litter of pups, it better be worth it. I'm not going to waste time, money, and my dog for a litter of pups I'm just going to sell. If I can't save up the stud fee by her next heat then I have 6 more months to save... Its all about priorities.
  12. cliffdog

    cliffdog Good Dog

    if you're doing things right you ain't gonna make no money breeding so you won't be making the cash to pay the stud fee.
  13. crimsonghost

    crimsonghost Little Dog

    That depends on the price of the pup. If you tell me garner don't make money, your crazy.
  14. CelticKarma

    CelticKarma Good Dog

    I think what people do with their dogs and their money is their business
  15. cliffdog

    cliffdog Good Dog

    True, but I highly doubt Ganja's a Tom Garner, lol. Joe Schmoe can't sell pups for what TG expects to get for em.
  16. crimsonghost

    crimsonghost Little Dog

    I don't know them foreigners are weirdos lol j/k
  17. 6pack1%er

    6pack1%er Good Dog

    Well if someone is fool enough to do it, let them do it. But knowing that anyone that knows what they are wanting and knows what to look for can take 2 shitbred dogs and breed them and stick with what they want, will eventually have what they want and would never have had to pay a stud fee or any of that mess.
  18. LRKennels

    LRKennels Little Dog

    Well if she didn't have the money for the breeding she wanted she shoulda waited and saved the money.
  19. ganja

    ganja Good Dog

    if I was breeding dogs I'd be trying to get the best stud I could find to stick a bitch to.. same if I'd had to stick my male to an outside female in order to produce great pups. it's all about how you want to do it, but it always makes for good discussions IMO as long as it stays civil :)

    lol.. well with the price of decent amstaff pups going from 700€ to 1200€ for some, I tend to think they do make some money..

    well then people shouldn't post their business on forums.. like I said.. it can make for nice disucssions/conversations if it stays civil and everyone could learn something IMO.

    lol I don't breed dogs, just so you know :p

    haha! coming from someone who lives in the US I'll take that as a compliment :lol: ;)

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