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Bowzer's pedigree!

Discussion in 'Bull Terrier History' started by daniellelv, Feb 17, 2009.

  1. Rosies Mum

    Rosies Mum Puppy

    Hi Daniellelv :)

    I don’t often post on this forum due to work and study commitments but like to come on and read the posts and others opinions and look at the wonderful pictures of all the Bull Breeds

    After reading all of the above I thought I would comment this time.

    Before I do can I just say that I have owned 7 Bull Terriers over the last 29 years. I have done obedience and agility with my dogs and compete at Championship breed show level. I have also bred. I mention this not to make it sound as though I know everything, I never will, but just to point out that I do have a lot of experience with the breed

    One of you previous posts, giving advice to a would be owner worried me greatly, and if this is your experience with Bowser, it is not a typical Bullie experience :(

    The UK Kennel Club, the governing body for dogs in the Country of the Bull Terriers origin produce a breed standard for every breed and the Bull Terriers begins as follows

    General Appearance
    Strongly built, muscular, well balanced and active with a keen, determined and intelligent expression.

    Characteristics
    Courageous, full of spirit, with a fun loving attitude. A unique feature is a downfaced, egg-shaped head. Irrespective of size dogs should look masculine and bitches feminine.

    Temperament
    Of even temperament and amenable to discipline. Although obstinate is particularly good with people.

    The pedigree you have displayed is a pet Bull Terrier pedigree, and there is nothing wrong with that, most dogs in this country are just that, pet dogs, but although he looks a nice I would never consider breeding from him. This is just my opinion and I base this on all your concerns over his temperament as well as his conformation. The aim when breeding is to improve the health, conformation and temperament of the next generation. You yourself mentioned you think it might be a hereditary trait, which is a possibility.

    You have mention several times about difficulty training Bowser, all my 4 dogs have completed their Kennel Club Obedience awards, Daisy who is a particularly stubborn little madam completed her adult awards whilst still a pup (under 12 months). They are stubborn, but with a firm, gentle and consistent approach they can learn anything as well if not better than other breeds of dog.

    You have mentioned that he shows aggressive tendencies and about problems with children. This is NOT normal Bull Terrier behaviour and as you can see is far removed from the breed standard and what is considered acceptable.

    I guess it’s possibility a cultural thing, but agility training in the UK does start until a dog is above 12 months of age, the reason for this being that a dogs bones are not fully developed and set until after that age and can be damaged, also it can lead to arthritis in later years something I’m sure you are aware Bull Terriers are prone to. It would be the same with weight pulling and any other exercise which places strain on a dogs joints and bone structure.

    You should be able to take anything off him, his food or his toys, you are the human, he is the dog, you are the pack leader and at his age he should know and respect that, he still has a lot of growing to do and if the ground rules are not set soon it may be to late to correct :(

    I do wish you all the best with him and hope he grows up into a well adjusted dog that you can trust in all situations, as should be the case with this breed :)
     
  2. daniellelv

    daniellelv Banned

    never said i was going to breed him. wasn't putting his pedigree up to see if he is worthy of breeding. i am working on him with obedience. and i can take anything away from him that i want, he knows that i am leader and willingly accepts it. he loves children at my house, just a little scared of children outside of the home, but were working on it and he is improving. but no matter what i say im sure someone will just have something bad to say.
     
  3. daniellelv

    daniellelv Banned

    also the advice that i was giving to stefox as you quoted is not all about my own experience with my bull terrier, but the others i have been around with friends.
     
  4. Dray

    Dray Bull Terrier Moderator

    Well Done

    Hi Danielle,
    I am pleased to hear that you have addressed and are working with Bowzer's slight fears and i would just like to say that you do put the doubts in to people's minds due to what you write and it may help your case if you were to update some of these posts that paint a misleading picture of both you and the lovely Bowzer:sonn_u11:
    I know you love your dogs and it is a case of each to their own and as i will never see the point of the spring pole i am pleased to hear his obsessions have subsided:sonn_u11:

    Dray x
     
  5. daniellelv

    daniellelv Banned

    im going to upload a video of some of his success as well. glad to see you are not pushing an argument and beating a subject to death. im glad we can end it on a quite note. :)
     
  6. Mollie's Nana

    Mollie's Nana Krypto Super Dog Staff Member Super Moderator

    Keep up the good work Danie :)
     
  7. Dray

    Dray Bull Terrier Moderator

    Thank you

    Danielle,
    I am so glad also;)
    After all it is a discussions forum and when people are passionate about their beliefs it makes for different opinions and hopefully better viewing:sonn_u11:
    I still think the pictures of Bowzer and his little cutie are the best you've posted to date xx xx:sonn_u11:

    Dray x
     
  8. daniellelv

    daniellelv Banned

    he loves that other bull terrier so much. However they got in a bit of a fight the last time they were together. She got over stimulated when the owner of the female tried to wrestle with the two dogs. I broke it up (with an expensive camera on my neck) and she cut his ear he had to get two stitches but he didn't hurt her at all which tells me he didn't want to, she was just bullying him too much and he wanted to tell her to stop it. The owners felt bad, but now we know not to engage in rough play with the two dogs together. The female gets over stimulated easily.

    i was thinking of leaving the forum due to the hostility with this group, but now i've decided to continue to give it a try.
     
  9. daniellelv

    daniellelv Banned

    here are some vids of my work with Bowzer.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjJpk__2-eQ"]YouTube - leavethetoy[/ame]

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Re6gaYojzMs"]YouTube - leavethefood[/ame]

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxSbn2Jq0G0"]YouTube - crawl[/ame]

    here is a video of him playing with my 7 pound chi, hes really gentle with her.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lst42I_fQpQ"]YouTube - Bull Terrier VS Chihuahua[/ame]
     
  10. Dray

    Dray Bull Terrier Moderator

    We are constantly learning from our mistakes and as long as you realise that play time can very quickly turn and that no dominance should be allowed in play and you should always be ready to defuse a situation even before it happens, unfortunately you need to learn the hard way and will learn to listen and see the change from play time to agression imediately:sonn_u11:
    Glad you've chose to stick around, just hope you will ask for plenty of advice from the very, many experienced Bullie people that this excellent forum has to offer and try to remember, most people have the dogs best interest at heart:sonn_u11:

    Dray x
     
  11. daniellelv

    daniellelv Banned

    eh...yea i dont know how they handle the dominance fighting with their female though. I dont know if they are doing anything to subside it. she was telling the dog 'May play nice' and when she stopped for a secnd the first time she walked over and then the owner gave May a treat. I thought that it was kind of odd to give a treat right after she was trying to instigate a fight, and it was about 30 seconds later she went for him the second time but this time bowzer had has enough and wanted to stick up for himself. the first time he didn't do anything but cower. she didn't correct the behavior after the fight, what should she do ro reprimand her for being like that? its not my dog, but i can tell her for next time. I didn't reprimand Bowzer, he was only trying to defend himself being as she was definitly the agressor and going after him as he displayed several submissive acts towards her to no avail. He tried to get away but she wouldn't let off, although it was only a few seconds long, i broke it up quickly. Bowzer didn't hurt her so he was all noise but she hurt him which tells me her intentions were more serious. SHE was also humping him too.
     
  12. Dray

    Dray Bull Terrier Moderator

    Dominance

    She sounds like a very dominant bitch but they are both very young and with the right supervision and timely intervention they should become best friends. Try taking them out for a long walk on their leads before comencing in off the lead play and this should calm the situation down and while they are walking together it should maintain their natural pack instincts, you should be able to assess both dogs and chastise accordingly while they are in your garden and if the bitch's owner is responsible she should not take offence as she should also want to encourage good acceptable behavior between the two:sonn_u11:

    I bid you farewell:lol:

    Dray x
     
  13. daniellelv

    daniellelv Banned

    ohhh okay gotcha.
     
  14. Dray

    Dray Bull Terrier Moderator

    Video's

    Morning Danielle,
    I have just watched all the video's and i am really impressed with them all:sonn_u11:
    Bowzer is a sweet Bull Terrier and you have trained him well;) Watching him with the Chi was really nice as he is clearly not dog agressive but i am interested to hear what you thought about the tug o war one with the pit bull, and what you were hoping to acheive because in my opinion that was a step in the wrong direction as Bowzer is obviously very clever and he only seems to loose it slightly when you play these crazy games:no2: Maybe Bowzer can be getting mixed signals as to what you want from him 'cause i for one sure do:D
    I wish you every sucess with Bowzer's training:sonn_u11:

    Dray x
     
  15. daniellelv

    daniellelv Banned

    The game was just that, a game. He really wanted to play tug of war with the other dog, but they didn't along very well so we allowed them to play but on leashes to prevent a possible fight. we only did it that one time, because i found the dog a home (it was only a foster.) Bowzer would pick up the toy and bring it to the other dog so he really wanted to play with him but they couldn't play nicely. Bowzer doesn't have dog aggression problems except for that dog but that dog was an intact male in his yard. otherwise he goes with me on play dates with my friend who has a westie thats intact and he does fine with him, probably because he isn't in his yard. the two dogs loved playing though, and they actually have competetions at bully clubs of dogs playing tug of war.


    in this pit bull show they have competetions for this sort of thing.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPPsUQlQ9KE"]YouTube - WORKING PIT BULL SHOW 2008 10/11.05.2008 KRAKÓW POLAND[/ame]
     
  16. Dray

    Dray Bull Terrier Moderator

    Personal opinions

    Again Danielle,
    You must understand that in my country these sorts of games/shows either do not exist or are very few and far between so many people from the UK will frown upon this type of play and yes i do agree that this is through ignorance on my pert and i suppose if the dogs that taking part are not becoming agressive and really enjoy the games then it is down to personal choice but it still does not sit nicely with myself and i feel the tugging game must intensify play and if you have got two dogs who are toy obsesssed then surely this can lead to disagreements unless done by very experienced owners who are very quick to react.
    I would still rarther see Bowzer running free and just playing nicely with other dogs without any props. That goes for all dogs by the way:sonn_u11:

    Dray x
     
  17. daniellelv

    daniellelv Banned

    i understand, thats why i showed you a video cause i was thinking you must not have heard of it. the game can get a bit extreme, thats why they are put on leashes for safety reason to make sure there isn't a fight.
     
  18. Dray

    Dray Bull Terrier Moderator

    Why!!!

    What i still don't understand is why take the risk, just for a game of Tug o War:confused:
    It does however seem to be just my opinion so i respect the fact that you are allowing it to remain as a conversation/discussion:sonn_u11:

    Dray x
     
  19. CoolHandJean

    CoolHandJean Krypto Super Dog

    I don't quite understand the tug o' war thing either. It's not a game, I'd do with my dogs, but that is just my opinion as well. Take it as you wish. lol.

    I don't mind playing tug o' war with my dogs and myself pulling, but I personally wouldn't have my two dogs tug against each other.
     
  20. daniellelv

    daniellelv Banned

    really? i've found a lot of people do it, with the male pit bull they would get a little too intense, but my pit mix female and my bull terrier play tug all the time and it never gets serious. and if it ever does that will be the end of the game for them.
     

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