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Bin Laden is dead?

Discussion in 'Controversial Topic Discussion' started by pampam22, May 1, 2011.

  1. Jamielvsaustin

    Jamielvsaustin Good Dog

    I both grew up around the military and was in it. My Dad served 22 years in the Army (multiple tours overseas-Grenada, Panama, Kosovo, both Desert Shield and Desert Storm, Kuwait, Afghanistan and probably a few others I can't remember or don't know about). I did 4 years in the Air Force with 1 tour in Iraq.

    I am with it enough to know, there's always more to the story than meets the eye. I'm also aware enough that I don't need to know everything.

    ---------- Post added at 03:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:58 PM ----------

    I misspoke, my Dad only did 21 years. I just calculated the dates.
     
  2. Prophecy

    Prophecy Good Dog

    When they release the pictures and reports,I ''might'' change my mind.Depending on what it says/shows.I don't jump to the same conclusions as everyone else.(gov't says so-so it IS so).I'm not satisfied with the current evidence ''as 100% proof''.We have been told B.S. before.We have been given cover-up stories.What I am implying is that people DO lie.Our gov't HAS lied and hidden things from the general masses.Not that all lies/hidden things are a bad thing. Not that he IS lying.The possibility exsists that there is some form of ''untruth'' to any tale. Do I think that Barak Obama is lying about osama bin ladens death? maybe.Maybe not.I am just skeptical.The story just doesn't sound right TO ME.I might just be harder to convince.
     
  3. 6pack1%er

    6pack1%er Good Dog

    No if a mob boss ordered a hit, he would be guilty of conspiracy to commit murder, the trigger man would be guilty of committing murder...
     
  4. Username!

    Username! Little Dog

    Jamielvsaustin Again thank you and thank your father! You must be pretty "with it" after being in the Air Force and doing a tour in Iraq!

    I bet you guys have some crazy stories; some good... some bad.
     
  5. Jamielvsaustin

    Jamielvsaustin Good Dog

    You're welcome, and thank YOU for the support.

    My Dad wouldn't share his stories with me until after I'd been over. My tour was pretty quite and probably nothing like what you would imagine. I was in Southern Iraq and most of the "happenings" happen up North more (Sunni triangle). Outside of our base was the town Al Nasiriyah. It's where the ziggurat is...also known as the house of Abraham.
     
  6. BILLBKLYN

    BILLBKLYN Good Dog

    There's a reason why I don't go into details. It has nothing to do with not being able to defend my views on an open internet forum. Those videos I showed you was how the majority of New Yorkers felt about the mosque by the WTC. It is by no means my level of exposure to the Religion of Peace. Put it this way: I am in the thick of things with these people while you sit on your hill in the sticks thinking I'm ignorant. If you wanna feel that way fine. YOU aren't in a constant danger of getting bombed by these animals or sharing intel on how to prevent future attacks. Remember this: They're coming for us again and to think it's not going to happen OR that the moderate muslims will stop it or condemn it is naive and foolish. It's up to us to curtail it and if it "offends" or profiles some people then so be it. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
     
  7. Fieldmarshal

    Fieldmarshal Big Dog

    Not when it comes to freedom. Security is never worth giving up freedoms for.
     
  8. Obed

    Obed Good Dog Premium Member

    FM, you are dead on IMO.. I agree with Ben Franklin when he said people who would give up liberty for peace, deserve neither....I think the patriot act (for example) is a prime example that our politicians ignore that sentiment and it shows the cowardice of our people...it is an insult to all who have fought for this country...
     
  9. Username!

    Username! Little Dog

    Obed strikes again!

    I love that quote and us it all the time.

    BILLBKLYN - You say, "They're coming for us again." So then I guess we all are "in a constant danger of getting bombed by these animals".

    After killing Osama I bet we are in even more danger than ever. I assume they want revenge more than ever before. Unfortunately they will most likely get us back eventually for that and it's probably going to be pretty bad (let us hope it's not a dirty bomb or a nuke in a highly populated city.) That's what makes me second guess that Franklin quote from time to time because I don't think the founding fathers had the foresight to realize there would be nuclear weapons that could obliterate entire cities and that they would be accessible to rouge groups of extremists.

    That being said it sounds like you are possibly doing some pretty dangerous stuff, so be safe and thank you for your service (even if I may not always agree with you).
     
  10. 6pack1%er

    6pack1%er Good Dog

    Last edited by a moderator: May 4, 2011
  11. phillysmom

    phillysmom Good Dog


    100% right on.
     
  12. BILLBKLYN

    BILLBKLYN Good Dog

    Who is talking about freedom? I wasn't. I never implied that on my last statement. The "people" I deal with are almost all foriegn-born so in my eyes they have no freedoms, especially when they come on THIS soil with the intent to do harm. Like I said before, I base my statements based on what I deal with and these are the people I deal with.

    Now for some levity: Did you hear about the new OBL drink?

    It's 2 shots followed by a splash of water.

    Username thanks but I'm no James Bond. The real heroes are the men and women "over there" facing the danger constantly. I'm just a guy with a City/State job who works with the Feds here and there.
     
  13. Jamielvsaustin

    Jamielvsaustin Good Dog

    Where you born here? Where your parents? Their parents? We're all foriegn to this land (unless you're native american).

    I understand an important part of that sentence is-with intent to do harm. But I just wanted to remind you, we all pretty much got here that way.
     
  14. Obed

    Obed Good Dog Premium Member


    there is no such thing as a Native American.. those who are called that had ancestors that migrated here across the straights....there is no race of people that originated on this continent...
    as to the rest of your questions, all of us had folks who migrated here... some in the last few decades, some came much longer ago than that...
    my folks have been in Texas since there was a Texas, the branch that has been here the shortest amount of time has been here for 6 generations...
    not really sure when the first of my ancestors set foot on our soil, and do not care...I jokingly call myself a German Jew with an Irish twist...but I have no feelings of loyalty to any of the places folks before me came from...nor would I cut any slack to folks who came from there if they mean us harm....my view is fuck with us, you die... period...
     
  15. Fieldmarshal

    Fieldmarshal Big Dog

    No you did not imply it, you said it directly.

    You were clear in saying that it is ok to profile people if it means that we could catch a few individuals who want to harm us.

    This absolutely is infringing on the freedoms of people you intend to profile and harass, and this could be anyone, us citizens and non citizens. Unless you have magic powers to differentiate citizens and non citizens, even though that does not matter since most freedoms and rights apply to everyone. Besides according to the FBI, the vast majority of terror incidents in the Us have come from domestic far left and far right groups. So this profiling you speak of inevitably involves us citizens.

    So like I said, a few terrorists do not scare me enough that we need such gargantuan security measures that require me to give up my rights and cause inconvenience. And let's be honest, how much safer are we now than before 911?
     
  16. Obed

    Obed Good Dog Premium Member

    the constitutional rights are for everyone under our governmental jurisdiction, it actually defines the government authority and lack of it, just as much as it defines our rights, and nothing in it excludes non-citizens on our soil...
     
  17. BILLBKLYN

    BILLBKLYN Good Dog

    FM, for the last time I am not talking about the home grown terrorists who are native-born. I am specifically dealing with the NYC-area immigrants (most of them illegals with forged identities) from the bowels of the earth who come here to do us harm. You shouldda been born a chick with the way you twist my words around to suit what you wanna hear. Who "harrasses" anyone? If I talk to anyone I already know their citizenship status and guess what? NO ONE I've dealt with is native-born. Another fact: profiling absolutely works. The problem with that however is that when you cast out your net to grab the offenders you inevitably pull in innocents in along with the guilty. That's why it isn't used in this PC society and why the 65 year old white grandmother from Wisconsin is body-searched by TSA at the airports while the 25 year old nervous-looking guy with a Middle Eastern name and no luggage gets to walk on the plane. Stop him and all of the "special interest" groups hoot and holler. Before you tell me about American-born terrorists I specifically do not deal with them (yet) so therefore I am not talking about them.

    Jamielvsaustin yes I was born here. as were my parents, as were 3 of my grandparents, as were 2 of my great-grandparents. I was born in Brooklyn, New York City, New York State, United States Of America so yes, I am a native american. My ancestors were not recruited in Europe to come to America, meetup with like-minded immigrants, use an alias to get here with phony creds, and commit acts of violence causing hundreds if not thousands of deaths. So no, we all didn't get here the same way.

    Obed you are right about the Constitution specifically not excluding non-citizens. Sharp (and some not-so-sharp) attorneys work around that daily.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 6, 2011
  18. Fieldmarshal

    Fieldmarshal Big Dog

    Its completely irrelevant who you specifically work with, because terrorism is not relegated to those who YOU specifically work with. Terrorists come from all sort of backgrounds, have multiple different ideals, goals and methods to achieve them by. Profiling one group because thats who you work with it is rather stupid, because your not doing anything to curtail terrorism as a whole, as a matter of fact it is more harmful when one group is profiled, because it gives other groups more breathing room since all the attention is not paid to them. Looking at something like terrorism on a group basis is the most stupidest thing i have heard.

    The FBI has a huge collection of terror activities, stats and data, and its all on the FBI website. I have yet to read anything anywhere that suggested profiling any group is a viable method to combat terrorism. Because ANYONE can be a terrorist, and as such it should be looked upon on a individual basis. If any profiling is suggested, it is to certain suspicious behaviors, its never based on ethic or religious background.

    Also who was talking about weather profiling works or not? Thats completely irrelevant. Torture too works in certain circumstances to get out information, but should the police be given the authority to do it? NOPE. Besides, if you are saying we should profile groups likely to cause harm to this nation, wouldn't Muslims come in the bottom of the list, because if you are going to look at terror activity in America, Islamic related activity is one of the least frequent, they got lucky with 9/11, but no way means they are any more dangerous than the many other domestic terrorist groups out there. Once again, your anti-muslim bias is self evident. But its justified, because you read and understand the Quran right..:rolleyes:

    And like you said, with this whole net casting thing a lot of law abiding citizens are going to caught in it. Which they shouldn't be. You are saying, oh they are being too PC about it, and its important for security, i am saying, stop being a bitch and a coward. Because we do not NEED to profile or have all this silly security measures, and you didn't answer the question Bill, are Americans safer now than they were before 9/11?

    All i am seeing the the govt and security agencies hoarding more power and tax dollars in the name of safety at the cost of our freedoms and privileges and still we are not safe.
     
  19. BILLBKLYN

    BILLBKLYN Good Dog

    No. Americans are not safer now then before 9/11.

    I also live in the "Real World". To make an omelet you have to break some eggs. That's just the way it is. Lamenting about it isn't going to really change it. My vision must be going because I went over what I wrote and nowhere did I write that profiling is important for security. But you just wrote that I said that when I did not. What I wrote was that profiling works but it has inherent problems with it so that's why it is not done. And, once again you are comparing apples and oranges. This thread is about OBL dead. Not about home grown terrorists.

    Also explain to me how am I being a bitch and a coward? I seem confused so please, please enlighten me with your wisdom on how this is so from your utopian bubble you live in. Like I said, you don't know me so please don't speak for me or assume you know my M.O. because you don't.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 7, 2011
  20. Fieldmarshal

    Fieldmarshal Big Dog

    You said, its a fact that profiling works,
    you also said, its ok to profile certain people,
    First you say, profiling actually works, going so far as to claim it as a fact, but of course no data or evidence given, then you claim, "these" people, whoever they are, are coming for us, and its ok to profile them.

    Now you claim, well i never said profiling was important for security. When thats what you directly implied with your previous statement. Saying, these people are coming, its ok to profile them, and profiling works. In essence saying, profiling is a valid security measure.

    So make up your mind Bill.

    Also, something new that is contradictory is now your claiming, we do not profile because of its inherent problems. Because thats not what you initially said. Because, the only reason you gave for it not being used is the PC society and special interest groups, nothing to do with the actual flaws of profiling.
    Lets sum up here shall we,

    So far, you said profiling works, its ok to profile, and the only reason its not used is because of the PC society. Weather you claim or not, you absolutely think according to your posts that profiling is a valid security tool.

    Even though now you claim, you never said that its a important security tool, if thats the case, why even bring up profiling? Just do it for shits and giggles?

    This thread is about OBL dead, i also recall, a certain poster, oh that would be you, who rambled on about Muslims in general. Which like you say, would be apples and oranges.

    Since you did talk of Muslims in general to terrorism, thats why this thread turned to terrorism. And no its not apples to oranges when it comes to terrorism, home grown terrorists, foreign terrorists, are all equally a threat, and should be treated as such.

    Don't take it too personally Bill, it was not a reference to YOU, but the way of thinking people seem to have that its ok to do certain things, even though you know it maybe wrong to some good people, just so you can feel safer.
     

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