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Baby Mice

Discussion in 'Exotic Mammals' started by whit8908, Nov 28, 2010.

  1. whit8908

    whit8908 Little Dog

    so we are caring for a friends snake, and he brought 2 baby mice over to feed it, well the snake wasnt hungry and im wanting to get them out of that snakes tank and keep them, or at least care for them for now... but i have no idea what you would feed a baby mouse!! they are big enough to move around, and have white fur already, but their eyes arent quite open
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 28, 2010
  2. Hucklebutt

    Hucklebutt Banned Back Yard Breeder

    they would probably need milk, but you can put some mice food out of them, otherwise, hopefully some critter people will come chime in.
     
  3. Flatbedder

    Flatbedder Good Dog

    TsIT's better to feed dead mice to snakes for some reason. That's all I know
     
  4. pitpupmom

    pitpupmom Big Dog

    Yeah I only feed Frozen Mice to my snake, less chance of the snake getting hurt.
     
  5. kady05

    kady05 Krypto Super Dog

    Baby mice/rats are SUPER hard to raise, especially if they're eyes aren't open yet. They would need some type of milk replacer, often (I believe it's every 2hrs.) til they can eat solid foods. They also have to be stimulated to use the bathroom often as well.. you can use a warm wash cloth to do this.
     
  6. Gatorpit

    Gatorpit Good Dog

    It is beter to feed prekilled prey, only because it's safer for the snake. However, this does not apply to infant prey items who are incapable of fighting back, biting, or chewing the snake up when left in the cage.

    If you want to save the rodents, find a pet shop or someone with a nursing female rat. Either buy the female, or or give the babies to her wherever she is. Not a nursing mouse, or any other rodent, has to be a rat. Momma rats will raise ANYthing.

    If their eys are still closed they still need milk.

    ---------- Post added at 10:45 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:44 AM ----------

    however, however (lol)...if you plan on feeding your snake prekilled when he is big enough to eat more "dangerous" prey, it's always best to start him on prekilled as soon as possible so you don't have any trouble switching it later.
     
  7. lkelley36

    lkelley36 Big Dog

    Are you talking about pinkies, fuzzies, or little mice. There are lots of websites about how to take care of them, but why unless you want to become a mice breeder for the sale for snakes would you do that? I have had snakes for years. If the snake doesn't want them, it is easy to go buy some more later. Kind of a strange question for me....and OK...I don't feed my snakes frozen food. Just has never worked...NOW...I have had a rat climb his tail and bite me....I slamed it against the wall...lol..OK...dead rat. snake wouldn't eat. Went to the store and got a new one...lol...I know it is better to use frozen, so don't get onto me!! Just, I have never had a snake eat one. There are rules to feeding snakes. For one, you either put them somewhere else, other than there cage to feed them, or like I have, put them in the bottm level of the cage so the snake can hunt and find them. Watch to make sure the mouse isn't attacking a snake...which with yours I guess that isn't a problem. It is hard to have someone else feed your animals, no matter what kind, unless they have been around them. If they aren't going to be gone long, don't worry about it. Snakes can live without food for a long time. Really?? Just get rid of them and try again later.....
     
  8. 6pack1%er

    6pack1%er Good Dog

    You don't have to save everything,leave the mice in the cage and the snake will eat them when it gets hungry.
     
  9. GoingPostal

    GoingPostal Good Dog

    Sounds like they are too young to be on their own so you need to kill them, ideally with co2 but you probably don't have that so I'd whack them against something or toss them in the freezer. Not super humane but starving to death won't be either.
     
  10. Galadriel

    Galadriel Good Dog

    Toss 'em in the freezer. The snake should be switched over to frozen/thawed rodents anyway, so now sounds like a good time to start.
     
  11. Poisoned

    Poisoned GRCH Dog

    Well, if you really want to save them do what was suggested, but if they do live, what then? Are you going to keep them?
    I have a hard time believe you'd put a lot of effort into saving two little guys just to give them back to the snake.

    If you euth them, sorry Gal, my opinion is just cut their heads off, don't freeze them.. That is just not humane IMO.. I'm a rodent lover and I'm for a humane death of anything.. when I pre-kill crickets I crush their heads.
     
  12. Galadriel

    Galadriel Good Dog

    It's actually a pretty humane death for pinkies. It's quick and painless. Decapitating them makes them useless as a future food source as the fat and nutrients in the brain are crucial. If we're talking hoppers or older, bonk first, then freeze.
     
  13. Poisoned

    Poisoned GRCH Dog

    I don't know.. freezing just seems pretty ugly. Maybe I'm just too soft about it, I've never been a pinkie who was frozen to death, so I cannot go by experience :lol:

    I won't even go into live vs F/T.. Maybe not with pinkies and babies who cannot fight back, but for adults.. The damage a mouse can do to a snake is pretty surprising. I had to take care of my brother's Burmese after he got a bad bite from a mouse that he let fester.. That was a real mess.
     
  14. Coiler

    Coiler Little Dog

    Frozen is the way to go... but anyway, there's not a lot you can do for the mice. As a snake owner (and someone who has had pet mice) it's better to just let them be fed to the snake. I've ended up keeping mice that a snake didn't want (snake was on 'hunger strike, only reason I tried live) and then the mice died soon after anyway.

    The best way to kill them is CO2 as they just go to sleep, put'em in a container and then turn your car on. Use a towel or something to direct the fumes into the box.
     
  15. Galadriel

    Galadriel Good Dog

    Melody is absolutely correct! Once a rodent has teeth and the ability to defend itself, they can cause serious damage to the reptile trying to eat it. I've seen a burm eviscerated by a rabbit, multiple snakes and varanids with serious infections from mouse and rat bites, and a carpet python with huge chunks of skin and tail eaten away by a rat that was left in her enclosure overnight. Freezing will also kill off any internal and external parasites the rodents may be harboring.
     
  16. If its a pinky or fuzzy just freeze em, hoppers or larger Co2 works...Trying to "Knock em out" you might have to try a few attempts and I feel that is pretty wicked :/ a friend of mine would put them in a container and shake the crap out of the container until the mice were knocked out...just seems harsh IMO.

    Chopping off the heads dont do much good and are quite disgusting...especially for feeding snakes the guts will squish out. Already nasty enough when you thaw a rodent out and the belly splits open when the snake strikes (Groooody) lol

    Although I am a rodent lover, I also enjoy snakeys...so its a tough spot...THUS why I always get prekilled...unless its a small snake like a baby corn etc then I have no problems just breeding mice and freezing pinkies/fuzzys. Also much easier to see rodents differently, you have pets the ones you name, handle and care about, then food stock...which I personally don't get attached to, no names, no handling etc

    ---------- Post added at 08:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:49 PM ----------

    oh also wanted to mention. if they are that small without a lactating mouse/rat to take over...the chances of saving the mice is next to none. I have only successfully been able to hand raise baby mice ONCE, and it was round the clock work. Milk replaces are not all you have to worry about, they also need a liquid that breaks down gas because the milk replacers are not meant for small rodents and tends to bloat there tummies...next you have to constantly wipe the private areas with a damp cloth to keep there bowls from filling up to bad...its just a pain in the ass and really not worth doing...sadly enough...
     
  17. whit8908

    whit8908 Little Dog

    they are the fuzzies.... the snake has been eating live mice as long as ive known him, and even the girl who had him before the previous owner did the live mice thing... i askd the guy and he said to keep them in there a little longer and if the snake doesnt eat them hell come get them out... im not really tryin to stick my hand in there, the snake is very cranky right now!!
     
  18. Gatorpit

    Gatorpit Good Dog

    Why do you have this guy's snake? If he can come over to help with it, why does he not just have it himself?

    Just because previous owners did the live thing...doesn't mean it's the best way to go.

    BTW...what kind of snake is this, and how old is it? It sounds as if it's been passed around a bit, and is likely NOT a baby anymore. There are very few pet snake species that should be eating food that small as an adult.

    Unknowledgable snake owners frequently feed prey items that are too small. There is also no reason to feed multiple items in the same feeding. The food item should be the appropriate size for the age and species of snake. If it needs two fuzzies to be full, then it should really be getting a mouse that is the same size as two fuzzies.

    Snakes spend a vast amount of energy in the constricting and eating of prey (especially boas and pythons) and thus the nutritional content of the food needs to reflect this. Hehas to work twice as hard constricting and eating 2 prey items of a small size than he does one prey item of a more appropriate size.

    Lets put it this way, if you had to jog five miles for part of your dinner, and that part was only a potato, and you had to jog another 5 miles for the steak, and you had to do this everytime you ate, you would be using more energy then you are taking in.

    Now colubrids (corn snakes, king snakes, etc)are a slightly different thing, they are far more active hunters and will search out their next meal and take smaller prey when available, as opposed to boas and pythons, who ambush their prey by sitting in the same spot for days on end and waiting for food to walk by. Most of a constrictor's energy is used constricting it's prey Which they do even if the prey is killed before it's offered.

    Chances are, by the sounds of it...that this dude (owner) has NO idea what he's doing, and doesn't even have it set up properly. It's extremely (sadly) rare to find someone who has reptiles as pets that actually knows what they're doing AT ALL.

    And this guy doesn't sound like he's got a clue.

    ---------- Post added at 12:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:33 PM ----------

    So, forget the mice...I'm more concerned about the snake.

    What species of snake is it?

    How old is it?

    How big is it?

    How is it set up? (enclosure, lighting, temperature range, deco, hide spot, etc.)

    How long has the snake been in your care?

    When was the last time it ate?

    How often is food offered, and is the snake usually a good feeder, or does he frequently refuse meals?

    How is it usually fed? In it's cage? In another container?

    Bad advice. Even if the prey items are not capable of harming the snake, their mere presence may cause him stress, which will cause him to continue to refuse food.

    It's also a bad idea to leave a bunch of crickets running around a lizard's cage, for the same reasons.

    I mean we eat chicken, but do we really want a bunch of live birds running around in our bedroom until we get around to eating them one at a time?
     
  19. whit8908

    whit8908 Little Dog

    -its a western hog nosed snake...
    -my guess is he is at least 2...
    -he gets fed every weekend or at least every other weekend, ive only seen him eat once bc ive never been here when he brings the snake food...
    -the snake was with a friend of ours since it was little, then she gave him to our other friend, dont know how long he had him but he had to move and the new place hes stayin doesnt allow him to keep it there, so we offered to keep him here
    -im no good with measurements but he pretty big, and as round as a water bottle cap possibly
    -been in my care since August, and like i said eats every weekend-every other weekend... the girl who had him for a long time said there are times when he wont eat as much
    -this is the first time ive ever heard of him not eating since hes been here, and he its in an aquarium with a have glass/half wired top, and has his light u turn on to simulate day time, the heat light, and wen necessary it has a heater on the bottom of the tank, hes got 2 wooded like things to hide in/under

    ---------- Post added at 01:48 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:45 AM ----------

    i got the mice out, they are movin around lie crazy now they are away from the snake, they DO have their eyes open, and it looks to me like they clean and take care of each other... idk if they are goin to live, but at least they arent goin to die just hangin out in the snake cage, at least ill have tried
     
  20. Gatorpit

    Gatorpit Good Dog

    If there eyes are open you can feed them solids and they may do okay.

    The snake really ought to be eating (pre killed) medium sized adult mice, but it's not really neccesary with these guys. Generally the rule for food size is: the food item, when stretched out lengthwise, should be as big around the middle as the thickest part of your snake.

    You mentioned lights and heatpads, that's great...but temps are more important. If your heaters aren't getting warm enough, or are heating too much, that will effect the snake's health and behavior.

    Temp requirments (very important that these are consistant, or the snake will go off food, and may have trouble digesting if he does eat):

    Daytime overall temperature mid 70’s to mid 80’s
    night time temperature mid to high 60’s.
    Basking light in one area of the enclosure should be provided to permit the snake to warm itself at least to the mid 90’s.

    So that means that the cool side of the tank should be no lower than around 75 degrees during the day, but the warm side needs to elevate significantly higher.

    I don't know if you are aware of the need for a temperature gradient inside the cage, but this can get tricky with smaller enclosures, especially for species requiring higher basking temps, as it's difficult to keep the whole cage from getting that hot.

    Make sure the heat lamp and the heat pad are on the same side of the tank, not on opposite ends, or in the middle. The daylight bulb is unnecesary, but not harmful, unless it is producing heat that when added to the heat lamp and pad, overheats the cage.

    Hognoses like to "burrow"...sorta. They hide just under the surface of the sand with their little faces sticking out. This is how they feel safe, so it is reccomended you provide a substrate that allows for this behavior (I use crushed walnut shell, but I feed outside of the cage) aspen or sand works too, just needs to be deep enough no matter what you use for him to go under. About 1 1/2 -2 inches.

    ---------- Post added at 10:27 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:16 AM ----------

    my hognose, Walker

    [​IMG]
     

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