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AST not a fighter?

Discussion in 'American Staffordshire Terrier' started by Castrensis, Apr 7, 2009.

  1. db_sampson

    db_sampson Puppy

    as an amstaff owner, ill say that while dog aggression has to an extent been bred out, its still there in some portion, they are not to be trusted with most other dogs. bella is a useless guard dog, they only way she could hurt you is if your allergic to slober. she is not dog aggressive but is incredibly reactive to any dog that displays aggressive behaviour, reguardless of size.
     
  2. LZRD84

    LZRD84 Little Dog

    after having owned both, there is a difference, but i still think you can make a dog game... if you wanted to. but i don't really understand why you would ever fight them. they're the best dogs and would never want to see any of mine ever get in a fight.
     
  3. Patch O' Pits

    Patch O' Pits Good Dog

    I don't think they should be making blanketed statements like they aren't DA. I've seen plenty that are at events I've attended.

    A lot depends I feel on the individual dog, the bloodlines and the breeding itself.
     
  4. Drew

    Drew Puppy

    My amstaff is only DA with dominate dogs, with poodles and such they can bite him in the nose and he doesn't even get upset. He about took a rednose pit's face off when he was less then a year old, though after a hard growl. He is an awesome and intimidating watch dog but loves people and is a big baby with anyone he knows, including young children. Amstaffs are the best dogs in my opinion and their sense of humor and amazing personality is hard to put into words.:sonn_u11:
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 7, 2009
  5. Phoenix

    Phoenix Little Dog

    Gameness is a genetic trait.One cannot make a dog game; a dog is game or he is not. It is a way of describing the innate "will" to continue work without quitting when the going gets difficult. Gameness and aggression are very definitely two different things; you CAN make a peaceful dog aggressive,but you CANNOT "make" a dog game.Also, aggressive posturing has nothing to do with gameness either.
    I have owned ASTs and APBTs and my synopsis is this: You will find more HA ASTs than APBTs. To put this in perspective,you will find WAY (way way way):pmore HA Labs than the total of HA AST/APBTs combined.
    Our bulldog cousins are rightfully near the bottom of the HA list,but our Labs,Cockers,Yorkies,Dachshunds are near the top. If HA dogs won points these breeds would beat outour AST/APBT in a massive landslide.
     
  6. Phoenix

    Phoenix Little Dog

    By the way, the AST will fight. Don't think he won't. Actually ,that goes for all dogs.All you need is the right circumstance for one to occur.
     
  7. steve0

    steve0 Puppy

    my pitt-ish rescue dog is non ha or even da- oh and I'm in the uk :-D. she always ignores displays and posturing from little snappy dogs and the nervous ones too. but she does retaliate and escalate instantly against any dog trying to be dominant aggressive. unlike some breeds our bulls dont tend to be bullies!! ;-) I've had her 2 months and she has had one big run in with a dominant da german shepherd. it tried to dom her. she did not comply. it attacked. she fought back. it moved away. and this happened three times!! she didn't chase it between scuffles but sat by me!! and I can only assume it took the german shep all three attempts to work out that her calmness was a calm confidence- not cowardice.

    Don't be fooled by your bullys not instigating DA- they will all fight. some are just more laid back than others. also- IMHO the ones who are instigating DA have obviously been encouraged and/or rewarded for it. OR not been discouraged from it.

    Either way- its the same thing. poorly trained owners leading to badly behaved dogs.
     
  8. Mollie's Nana

    Mollie's Nana Krypto Super Dog Staff Member Super Moderator

    - its the same thing. poorly trained owners leading to badly behaved dogs.

    Bingo!!
     
  9. steve0

    steve0 Puppy

    :sonn_u11: ta mollies nanna
     
  10. caspar

    caspar Puppy

    i,ve seen many a game AST just because its been watered down somewhat does,nt mean you never get it,im talking working dogs tht have never been in a show ring in there life they would rumble with a apbt any day of the week..
     
  11. DieselDawg

    DieselDawg Good Dog

    They are all bulldogs...
     
  12. sidonis

    sidonis Puppy

    the Amstaffs I have seen have been every bit as game or DA as a pitbull, but this depends on the breeding of the dogs and whether they are being used to work and then selectively bred for this purpose...........just like german shepherds used for police work compared to the show dogs.

    The Amstaff's can every bit as dog aggressive as the pitbull, never doubt that..........but........it's harder to find a good breed of amstaff that still has all the abilties of the pitbull, since the pitbull is the working line....I like the working lines because the breeders breed for all the good qualities desired in the breed, they don't care as much what it looks like, so long as it performs it's job.

    My pitbull/amstaff is a brilliant guard..........they have a natural ability to know when the situation calls for action.........any dog will try to protect his owner.
     
  13. Budboy88

    Budboy88 Good Dog

    The AKC is lieng through their teeth by saying DA has been eradicated from AmStaffs ive seen some very hot Staffs

    Name one game AmStaff.

    ---------- Post added at 09:23 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:20 AM ----------

    Bullshit. I use my dogs as catch dogs i encourage my dogs NOT to be DA but guess what, ALL of them are to a certain degree. Genetics will always over power training. When will you people ever learn that.

    ---------- Post added at 09:24 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:23 AM ----------

    BULL SHIT! name one.

    ---------- Post added at 09:26 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:24 AM ----------

    And exactly how would you do that?? Gameness is a genetic trait.. That would be like training a Dalmation to have spots.

    ---------- Post added at 09:29 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:26 AM ----------

    UKC is AmStaffs and Bullies now not APBTS
     
  14. sidonis

    sidonis Puppy

    Spot my amstaff is game...............he'd crawl back to the fight with his leg hanging off. I had to pull many a dog out his mouth, heheh.
    As for grunter hunting, my dog comes from a line used for this, and he'd die on a pig..........I call this game too.........your right about them being DA on the pack, thats why they can be more a pain in arse, lots x breed them to mello them out a bit.

    Gameness is a genetic trait...............yep thats right, But i've seen shit pitbulls that come from game lines, doesn't always work so genetics is a large part of it, but not the be all and end all, it just up's your chances.
    If you want a working dog you look for breeders that use them to work, traits are bred into dogs just as much as genetics play a part.

    Amstaffs have the same genetic make up as the pitbull, so they have all the ability in the world..........ifyou selectively bred the amstaff they can be just as good as the pitbull.
     
  15. Annkees

    Annkees Puppy

    My sweet little AST mix is extremely loving to both people and dogs. She lived on the streets for the first 2 years of her life until she was rescued as a stray so she is very street smart and confident. She is now 10 years old:) She is a stocky 54 lbs. Her temperment is awesome even though she "raised herself".
     
  16. outsider

    outsider Little Dog

    You can take any group of dogs within a breed and target a behavior/mindset and breed to enhance it or discourage it.

    I think the AmStaff while not formally recognized as such by the AKC has split into two groups based on the 'software' of the dogs.

    Some people are breeding Amstaffs strictly for show and/or pet life, and in doing so look at temperament. Others who are breeding for other activities (be it weight pulling, fighitng, or hog hog hunting, or whatever) look at temperament much differently

    Similarly, someone who is breeding Irish Setters for show and for being pets puts a big emphasis on a long and lovely coat and being nice around kids. Those who breed Irish Setters to hunt birds breed for dogs that are smart but still listen well and who have good bird noses and bird sense.

    The result is you have one breed but it is 'split' between show lines and working lines.

    I do believe if you get an Amstaff from show lines where a calm and peaceful temperament was selected for over many generations you can get a dog with 'fighting tendancies' that is pretty much the same as a boxer or german shepard. After all look at a breed like the Mastiff, it has been bred to entirely change it's temperament from a war dog and guard dog to a a calm and docile breed.

    ---------- Post added at 08:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:40 PM ----------

    I also believe that directly or indirectly ABPT have been selectively bred for no human aggression. Just like you'd want a racehorse that would accept any jockey, people in the dog world from the times when fighting was legal would want a dog whose temperament allowed it to be sold to a stranger and who would readily accept that stranger not bit his hand off.

    I believe that when this trait is NOT bred for it diminishes back to normal, so the AmStaff is just as likely to decide to bite a person as a Dalmatian or Daschund. Heck, as people have tried to make it into a guard dog it may have had cases where it was bred FOR more human aggression than it had before.

    Now of course the problem with 'gameness or drive', the 'working' branch of the family may or may not have it in the same degree as before. The show line apparently does not. Because it is the same breed there is going to be crossings between the two groups which makes it more likely that any dog bought is a 'mixed line' dog...or has a mixed line ancestor which means it has a good chance of having reduced game.
     
  17. AussieAPBT

    AussieAPBT Puppy

    I have had both. My APBT is very DA. The Amstaff was VERY reactive. He was a good guard dog which was suprising and I believe HA to some extent.
     
  18. foxman

    foxman Puppy

    Gameness In the Amstaff

    A lot of you people know my history. I use to fight dogs and was quiet famous doing so. Not that doing so is a good or great accomplishment but it does give me some knowledge over those that have never fought a dog. An Amstaff isn't usually a game dog. My wife's Amstaff died last year. We had him for years. I liked him very much. He was a good family dog. I bought several Amstaffs of several different famous bloodlines back in the day and tried them. I have seen lots of guys try them back then and when they got behind in the fight most of them quit. For approximately 75 years Amstaffs were bred for show and there gameness was never tested. So the gameness was bred out of them. In other words the Genetics was changed in them. In those same 75 years the APBT was tested and any that weren't game were killed. Those that were game when tested were allowed to reproduce. No matter what anyone thinks. This made quiet a change in both dogs genetics and their gameness. I had a famous dog called "Alvin The Dog" that fought two hours and twenty three minutes and made one of the gamest scratches ever seen in a dogfight. Earl Tudor was there at that fight and said he was one of the gamest dogs he'd seen in 40 years. He was 1/4 Amstaff. Yet the rest of his bloodline were bred from top game dogs in that era. I believe he got his gameness from the pitbull and his good air and stamina from the Amstaff. He had a beautiful body like an Amstaff. I think 99 percent of the Amstaffs will quit. Especially when they are cut down and when they are in a long fight. I didn't breed very many females to Alvin because of his genetics. I had that fear in the back of my mind that his pups might take after the Amstaff blood he had in him. Yet most of his pups ended up being good game dogs. I flew to Colorado and bought him. I watched him fight first and he acted real good. So I bought him. All this happened in the 1970's. I do not fight dogs this day and time. I quit when I was 40 years old. I'm sorry if this hurt anyones feelings. Yet the truth is the truth. I will probably regret writing this. Everytime I write something there usually someone gets real mad for me stating my opinion and cusses me. You can read about me on this web and also on my web at http://rayfox6.tripod.com/ Good Luck no matter what kind of dog you have. Randy Fox
     
  19. Lee D

    Lee D Good Dog

    thanks for the input Mr Fox...good post
     
  20. cliffdog

    cliffdog Good Dog

    Very enlightening post Mr. Fox, I enjoyed reading it. Thanks for sharing your experience.
     

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