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Apbt Vs Am Staff

Discussion in 'Dog Debates' started by maryellen, Nov 13, 2007.

  1. shadowwolf

    shadowwolf Good Dog

    I actually beg to differ with you. The standard originally written for the AST was written based off of the APBT. The name was originally "Staffordshire Terrier" but was changed after they recognized the Staffordshire Bull Terrier to include the name American to differentiate from the British cousins.

    I've met many ASTs that are just as hot and ready as APBTs and are still bred true-to-form from the original dogs of old. There are many who're breeding under the bigger is better mentality, but they're not always the popular choice when in the conformation ring.

    And as to American Bullies, that's an entirely different ballgame since many individuals are breeding more than just ASTs & APBTs into them.
     
  2. tcmpreville

    tcmpreville Puppy

    Seriously?

    I would've titled this "Who cares?", but... I couldn't give a s**t. I've got a rescue that looks AmStaff (stocky, big head). He's big, blue, beautiful and just awesome regardless of AmStaff or APBT!
     
  3. High Athlon

    High Athlon Little Dog

    I've bred both AmStaffs and APBTs. AmStaffs for 5 years and APBT for 15 years. I perfer the American Pit Bull Terrier.
     
  4. skippy

    skippy Big Dog

    As far as I'm aware, blues stem from amstaff blood at best, other mastiffs at worst. So anyone who owns a blue dog must surely struggle to call it apbt. Then I have seen a whole debate about merle and whether to change the standard to exclude it. The decision was to not change the standard, even though it ws not mentioned because it didn't exist in the breed until about 20 years ago. This could only arise from crossing something else. So anyone with a merle dog would struggle to call it apbt. Then the number of "apbt" which are bred true to form is pretty small as well. Probably 90% only ever live as pets or are shown or maybe perform some other activity (flyball, agility, weightpull). If they are never seeing any testing, surely this negates the arguement of show vs go. A lot of people seem quite happy with their monster pits with males weighing in at 75-100+ pounds. What can that be? Surely not apbt if they were bred for a purpose and seldom exceeded about 45 pounds. Then "breeders" will claim they are great guards and protection dogs. This goes against more than a couple of hundred years of development so surely these can't be apbt either. That only really leaves the underworld dogs which are illegally fought even today. They are normally small dogs, seldom more than 40-45lbs and always so friendly with people they are useless as a guard. Perhaps these are the only dogs that can rightfully claim to be apbt, everything else being a different shade of embarrassment.
     
  5. Wingnutz13

    Wingnutz13 Little Dog

    X2, some people see my big blue and say it's a amstaff (he is 63 lbs at 7 months) like that's a bad thing. He's actually apbt, but I couldn't care less what anyone else thinks. My buddy has an amstaff and a apbt and they look the same and both have the same tempermant.
     
  6. Miakoda

    Miakoda GRCH Dog

    Many people care. Those, like myself, who are true APBT lovers and fanciers enjoy learning and knowing about the history....the factual history. We are also proud that our dogs are American Pit Bull Terriers and not just general "pit bulls."

    I have no problem with general "pit bulls" as I've had many a rescue dog that would've been labeled a "pit bull" (but myself, not knowing for certain the pedigree of a dog will always refer to it as a mutt...lovingly...it's NOT a bad word).

    But just casually throwing history down the toilet, not caring, etc etc is what has gotten ALL us "pit bull" owners into this entire BSL mess.

    If you don't like the dogs and don't care to educate yourself on all the breeds and their history, then go find some other breed to nonchalantly ruin.
     
  7. Ex1stID

    Ex1stID Puppy

    I know this is my first post but I'll jump right in with both feet.

    IMO there are a few people who are confused with what the term "game" or "gameness" means. It has absolutely nothing to do with the dog proving himself in a fight. Any APBT(or any dog) can have gameness without ever being in a fight period.

    As defined by Websters Dictionary
    Main Entry: 3game Function: adjective Date: 1610 1 a: having or showing a resolute unyielding spirit <game to the end> b: willing or ready to proceed <were game for anything>2: of or relating to game <game laws>
    — game·ly adverb
    — game·ness noun

    Ok I had a hard time finding a way to explain it myself so I borrowed a quote from here: http://www.pbrc.net/faq.html

    A dog can be game without being aggressive and vice versa. Unstable, highly aggressive dogs are, in fact, not at all likely to be game. As Diane Jessup explains in The Working Pit Bull, “Gameness does not mean a desire to fight—it means a desire to finish or succeed at a task” (156). Not all pit bulls are game.
     
  8. Ex1stID

    Ex1stID Puppy

    Sorry I wouldn't have posted that here, except I managed to overlook the other threads on the subject.
     
  9. skippy

    skippy Big Dog

    I disagree. It has everything to do with proving his mettel in a combat situation. In particular, in a losing situation. This is where he shows his "resolute unyielding spirit". Aggression is aggression, but in an even match or against odds, only gameness will see a dog through.
     
  10. myo

    myo Puppy


    I read that the Irish staff came from crosses of APBTs SBTs and blue paul terriers (now extinct). There are certainly a lot more blue Irish staffs than there are blue SBTs here in england so it kinda makes sense. Also the APBT is completely legal in the republic of Ireland as far as I know. So the tale of changing the names doesn't quite add up to me. Especially since the blue paul became extinct long before the UK pitbull ban, so if there is blue paul in them it would mean that people were breeding Irish Staffs a long time before the ban.

    Unless of course there is no blue paul in them. But then why is blue a much more common colour in irish staffs than it is in SBTs?
     
  11. Ares

    Ares Puppy

    I thought one thing that seperated am from pit is the dna watered but also akc not allowing the red pigment nose.
     
  12. myo

    myo Puppy


    I read that the Irish staff came from crosses of APBTs SBTs and blue paul terriers (now extinct). There are certainly a lot more blue Irish staffs than there are blue SBTs here in england so it kinda makes sense. Also the APBT is completely legal in the republic of Ireland as far as I know. So the tale of changing the names doesn't quite add up to me. Especially since the blue paul became extinct long before the UK pitbull ban, so if there is blue paul in them it would mean that people were breeding Irish Staffs a long time before the ban.

    Unless of course there is no blue paul in them. But then why is blue a much more common colour in irish staffs than it is in SBTs?
     
  13. steve0

    steve0 Puppy

    I just love the fact you can all rant about -american pit bull this / american staff that- and all the while keep throwing in that the foundations and even the key stone for all the dogs you discuss came from two little countries in europe :-)

    As an Irish man who lives in england this is most amusing :-D
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 15, 2009
  14. CoolHandJean

    CoolHandJean Krypto Super Dog

    Steve-O, no one is denying that the foundation for the two breeds came from Europe.

    No one is saying the Bull-and-Terrier was American.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 15, 2009
  15. BILLBKLYN

    BILLBKLYN Good Dog

    When I was on another forum (a British SBT forum) you should of seen the state of denial a lot of the posters were in about what there KC reg SBT's really were and where they came from. Some, not all, used to put the "pit bulls" down all the time and they would get highly aggitated when I would remind them that their SBT's were nothing more than the pit bulls that stayed behind in Britain after their ancestors went to America with the SBT's ancestors. Some would agree with the DDA and encourage the euthanasia of the "bad" "American" dogs while their SBT's could do no wrong. Then I would tell them that the next time they were insulting pit bulls and wanting them euthanized to get rid of their Staffies because in reality they are the same [] dogs. (Not just fastlane-bred or game anymore). I would also tell the DDA supporters to kiss their SBT's goodbye because the way things are going over there the SBT is next to be added to the DDA list. Unreal.
     
  16. steve0

    steve0 Puppy

    dang right. every time someone with a fat little staff looks horrified when mine appears i just say. hey carnie- its your little cousin............ and then politely say how luvly all the bulls are- must be because they all come from the same roots.......................... and their attitudes change quickly :D
     
  17. mandreweav

    mandreweav Good Dog

    Their roots may go back to the Uk but the present day APBT shed their blood in the states and thats what makes them American.
     
  18. DieselDawg

    DieselDawg Good Dog

    Although many people don't like to hear it...APBTs vary in size and weight more than AmStaffs. Part of the reason is that they were bred for performance first and conformation second...whereas AmStaffs are bred first and foremost for conformation.

    APBTs whether tall (19-23") or short (15-18") were bred if they could perform. Weight was only an issue when it came to the "weight-in" for a match...Of course, to meet those performance needs, it took certain physical traits that usually resulted in a very proportionate dog no matter what size and that lends itself to good conformation. On top of that most true APBT owners try to keep thier dogs fit and athletic looking which is what this breed requires.
     
  19. mandreweav

    mandreweav Good Dog

    True Statement.
     
  20. bkwil

    bkwil Puppy

    I see it like this you have the dodge charger
    Dodge Charger=Amstaff=pretty car looks fast
    Dodge Charger rt= Ukc reg. show pit=fast car for the streets
    Dodge Charger Srt=ADBA pit=let's race with the big boy's
     

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