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APBT and Amstaff?

Discussion in 'American Staffordshire Terrier' started by bullylover19, May 2, 2010.

  1. Sagebrush

    Sagebrush Good Dog

    In some other countries, they DO recognize Am Staf pedigrees from the FCI kennel clubs and DO distinguish between APBT and AST. (APBT is not FCI-recognized). If you can show an FCI pedigree on your Am Staf, it is NOT a Pit Bull and is allowed...But, I understand that England is different and I would never take an Am Staf there. Or ever SEND an Am Staf or Pit Bull to England, but I know that is done, apparently by people who do not mind risking the life of the dog or it's progeny.

    Well, if they are Pit Bulls with hung SBT papers, then they aren't Staffordshire Bull Terriers, are they? Are they able to determine these "SBTs" are really Pit Bulls with hung papers?

    So, in the case of the KC Staffordshire Bull Terriers, if you can show they have KC papers, they are okay, correct? How else would you prove they are Staffordshire Bull Terriers if they don't have papers, because they sure are "pit bull type"!

    Well, both breeds do exist in the USA and are distinctly different breeds as well. The Staffordshire Bull Terrier here is the same breed (with regional differences, yes, in the looks) as the one in England. Staffordshire Bull Terriers from England can be registered with AKC and vice-versa.

    The Kennel Club in England is FCI-affiliated -- is that correct?

  2. mr.clueless

    mr.clueless Good Dog

    im not saying the breeds are the same.....you are preaching to the converted :D......the only reason to hang kc papers on a pit bull was to try and give yourself some official paperwork when the police knocked at your door ( or sometimes broke it down ! ) as the kc carry authority in england.
    as for the kc staffordshire bull terrier being " pit bull type " i would disagree.....a breed with a standard height of 14 - 16 inch at the shoulder for males......is not pit bull type despite huge variation within the apbt breed.
    i think you will find the englsh kc will not register dogs of the breed known as the american staffordshire terrier....akc papers or not....
  3. Mrpedigree

    Mrpedigree Big Dog

    Intresting stuff clueless ...things got fcuked up in the uk in the 1990s...like i told you before i had kept and owned a few APBTs back then...in fact if the law wasnt such a cu*t i would probably still have the breed to this day...but it seems to keep one now it would be more trouble than ts worth :(....and with all the bs that around today how could you be sure that it was a apbt ?? :confused:
    Can you remember the under ground mag called the pit bull news ???
  4. Tigerlines

    Tigerlines Puppy

    amstaffs are banned under "pitbull type" ...never been a need for amstaffs in the uk..so their arnt any....and the ban and its enforcement is allways over hyped and over played.......their is no mass snatch and seize policy..the cost of which falls on the police....pitbull/amstaff types are roaming the inner city streets of the uk as they allways have......with out worry.....unless their involed in activities that attract attention...... or their in areas were the local "spaniel" loving sedentry , oap types get all frightened and confused...believe media headlines....rat on neighbours to the police....for owning fighting types...lol
  5. mr.clueless

    mr.clueless Good Dog

    wouldnt say the pit bull news was an underground magazine but yes i remember it well and still have some somewhere.....the mags owner joe graham was a great man and a great ambassador for the breed tragically he was the victim of a hit and run driver after which many pit bull owners of the time myself included called their next pup " joe " ...." sir joe " etc etc.....
    i always said the dda 91 was the best thing that ever happened to the sporting apbt in the uk.....simply because the idiots and wannabes who had them decided they wasnt worth the aggravation ( not having a dig at you by the way ;) )....and went into some other breed,leaving the dedicated followers of the apbt having to show some gameness themself simply to carry on keeping the breed what with all the risks.....naturally this meant only a good dog of the breed was worth keeping,hence the quality of dogs during those years was very high.....unfortunately in recent years the laws have been relaxed a lot more and every wannabe gangster and street bad boy has one ( or what they think is one ) ....only they are not old enough to know what we went through previously....and so quality has been lost again.....however,many of those dedicated folk who stuck with them all through who did not sell the breed out or breed dogs for financial gain and kept their standards high do still have top quality animals.....although naturally its a very small circle of people......for every 30 shitty pit bulls you see walking the streets theres 1 quality dog you dont see walking the streets ;)

    ps....just an interesting little titbit mr ped you being a boxing fan.....pit bull news owner joe graham was brother to ricky hattons old trainer billy graham
    ---------- Post added at 09:05 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:01 AM ----------

    to a degree you are right,the laws are nowhere near as tight as they was in the 90,s due to the new animal welfare act........however there was a time when it was very worrying....hence many of us back then became almost nocturnal in our exercising habits....
    if you had quality you wanted to protect it.....hence like i say,the best years the uk had quality wise for the breed was in those years.
    Last edited by a moderator: May 16, 2010
  6. Tigerlines

    Tigerlines Puppy

    ..yes...mr clueless..you are correct...i was around in the early 90's......but i do not agree with your comments about quality.........i know all about exercising a dog early hours to avoid prying eyes..lol..........good dogs are where you find them.......
  7. Mrpedigree

    Mrpedigree Big Dog

    In 1990 I bought a lovely bitch from our Friend in witney oxford it was my first apbt ...it was from his well known bitch called Daisy Mae ...who was a "champion" by all accounts ...whether that be true or not to this day would be hard to ascertain ....
    One of the fittest dogs i have eva owned she was...my mother and father have got a feild that i used to make her chase me on a quad bike ...i recon she could do 20 mph lol
    Last edited by a moderator: May 16, 2010
  8. mr.clueless

    mr.clueless Good Dog

    i guess it depends what you class as quality......what needs remembering is nobody really knew what they was doing or what they had in the early 80,s.......ive never been a fan of that term,....good dogs are where you find them,but great dogs are made not born

    ---------- Post added at 12:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:00 PM ----------

    i wont comment on the person or his dogs as its not really my place.......but yes you are right,the breed has great natural athleticsm......when i used to shape dogs up i had a speedo on my mills and most dogs in good shape would top out at 27/28 mph without too much problem.....
    as old ed reid famously said in a tv interview once " the apbt can do all the things the other dogs can do.....and then do the other dog ".....didnt go down to well at the time,but true words.
    Last edited by a moderator: May 16, 2010
  9. Tigerlines

    Tigerlines Puppy

    you may be right mr clueless,....great dogs may be made , not born....but until somebody can consistently make good dogs,........ill stick to my understanding and take em where i find em...lol
    Last edited by a moderator: May 16, 2010
  10. mr.clueless

    mr.clueless Good Dog

    couldnt agree more....i didnt say making them was easy :D
  11. Tigerlines

    Tigerlines Puppy

    ..hello mr clueless,.....you sound intriging to me ...lol..............your post implies that you have some knowledge of breeding...?
    do you believe it is possible to produce first class animals consistently..?

    do you have a methodology or know of a methodology to accomplish this..?

    can you please give examples...?
  12. SouthernThistle

    SouthernThistle Good Dog

    Wow - this is all new to me as when I contacted the consulate services in Scotland regarding relocation a year ago, they told me PBs were not banned; however, they did have to meet certain requirements, and this is what he told me:

    They must be neutered, registered, microchipped, muzzled, and leashed in public.

    There were some other stipulations as well, but that is the information I was given (and re-verified) when asking about moving to Scotland with an existing dog. Did this change recently?
  13. mr.clueless

    mr.clueless Good Dog

    any knowledge ive gained on breeding has been based purely on solid breeding principals and common sense....learn as you go....learn by others......along with a sound basic understanding of genetic inheritance..........sometimes it works sometimes it doesnt,i wouldnt call that a " methodology to accomplish " anything............
    id simply call that doing your damn best.......no different to anybody else really.

    do i believe its possible to produce first class animals consistently......absolutely not as nature dictates,what i do think possible is to consistently RAISE first class animals through strict selection,high standards and strict culling.

    as for examples you ask me to give.....well now im going to have a stab in the dark and say i dont think you are a newcomer to these dogs,in fact my guess would be you are one of these breed historians who could describe what earl tudor ate for breakfast on a sunday morning......which is all fine and dandy.....just not my thing.....hence i am possibly no more intriguing to you as you are to me :D
  14. Tigerlines

    Tigerlines Puppy

    mr clueless.......thank you for your reply......my questions were not meant as ,digs'....at you or your understanding......i am simply curious as to the idea that top quality 'working animals' can be consistently created...based on inheritable traits........and those who have knowledge of applying their understanding to produce 'proven' results....generation after generation.....in my own limited experience....i have believed many tall tales..of the ability of one line over another ...or one family over another.....but i have never, seen a great dog of a particular strain,line or family ..successfully and consistently reproduce its self ,..or encountered any one who was able to do so either........unless the individuals were show breeders locking in physical characteristics ,....which i think we can both agree is a different thing all together....
  15. Mrpedigree

    Mrpedigree Big Dog

    Strange ...you both have similar posting styles :confused:...you sure your not related ?:lol:

    ---------- Post added at 09:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:28 PM ----------

    I think that is the basic criteria for keeping a pure bred APBT in the uk :confused:
  16. Tigerlines

    Tigerlines Puppy

    ...now now mr pedigree.....we wouldnt want this thread shut down like last time...lol
    i now understand where you were going with your last posts ,aimed at me........
    if you or anyone else post information ,on this forum,interesting and relevant to me ...then maybe we will share a post or two...and your confusion will no longer be an issue...lol
    good luck in the dogs.!
  17. Mrpedigree

    Mrpedigree Big Dog

    Is this post for me or Mrclueless ??:confused:
  18. Tigerlines

    Tigerlines Puppy

    for you mr pedigree....and the previous shared posts im refering to are your ...friendly welcoming posts .. you shared with me , on the now locked thread titled 'a short story'....god luck in the dogs!
  19. Mrpedigree

    Mrpedigree Big Dog

    thanks mate ...good luck to you bruv also ;)
  20. mr.clueless

    mr.clueless Good Dog

    i certainly didnt take your post as " a dig " tigerlines....i was actually complimenting you in a roundabout way :D....there are some folk who know their history like the palm of their hand and i admire that it is simply not a direction i wish to take....i am not a big book reader and only know what ive seen or what i was told or what clearly worked......

    as for your theory,thats an interesting point of which however i wouldnt entirely agree.......i mean what do you call a great dog ?.....a great performing dog ? well i guess your right then as a gr ch who produced a gr ch who produced a gr ch without having to be bred out of the ass.......is a rare thing.......i mean as an example.....would a gr ch produced by gr ch mayday be classed as consistent great dogs ?...they were gr ch,s and rom,s going back to red boy.......but like i say when you take into account the amount of times they were bred did they consistently produce great dogs probably not....hence why i believe as a breeder its not what you produce its what you RAISE......by only raising top class individuals you are simply putting the odds in your favour but nobody can stop nature doing what it does.
    give me a simple well bred dog who is put together right over a " great dog " any day of the week and let breeding knowledge do the rest....too many times the win column dictates what happens in a breeders mind.

    good to hear your thoughts anyway its certainly food for thought.

    ---------- Post added at 02:24 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:21 AM ----------

    mr pedigree you could start an argument in an empty room with no windows !!...

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