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Ambra Discussion

Discussion in 'Bull Terrier' started by Dray, May 7, 2009.

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  1. Dray

    Dray Bull Terrier Moderator

    So does Ambra pull for fun or to try and get hold of her favourite toy ???

    Dray x
  2. Justus

    Justus Little Dog

    She pulls on profession on toy but on my training she go to me,not on toy.On youtube we have video, where she go to me,not on toy.I give the toy where is the end training.
    On profession she does not want go for i ,because when she sees as other dogs go on toy ,she don't work with i.She want toy too.(I try to work without toy twice her). In USA profesion is very proffesional.In Poland nothing is proffesional(i want too go on proffesional proffesion with my dog).

    (I hope that you understand me).
  3. Dray

    Dray Bull Terrier Moderator

    :confused:I was under the impression that all the dogs pulled because they love to pull and were happy to prove what they can do, but it sounds to me that you train her to do as she is told and pull the weight because you tell her to and not because she chooses to do so:confused: and she also pulls to get to her favourite toy and get her prize so maybe your right i do not understand:no2:
  4. CoolHandJean

    CoolHandJean Krypto Super Dog

    Dray, from my understanding of the sport, in the American pulls you aren't allowed any form of bait. However, I have read that even if you do try to bait train your dog and the only reason the dog is pulling is for the bait or for a toy, there will be a certain weight the dog just won't pull. However, if you train the dog, to "work" or "pull" on your command, and the dog really enjoys it, then they will try to pull no matter what weight, even though, all dogs have a certain weight where physically they just won't be able to do it.
  5. Justus

    Justus Little Dog

    Yes, but it is not my fault that at training, she goes to me, and the professions will not, because she knows that other dogs are going on a toy.
    In addition, if the dog did not want to work, do not to go to a toy.
    Is only three years as in Poland are the proffesions and I doubt that anything will change in.Dogs will always be working on a toy but I wanted to be different.Syberian's work without toys but as a rule party only for those breeds of dogs.Sometimes organize an open formula but my dog is already accustomed to working on the track for a toy.Is able to work with my dog for competitions without a toy but a very big effort on my part to work on a dog(but only for competitions as for siberian's).
    In pulling sport in terms of the strong will of the dog and it does not matter whether a toy or to go to the owner.The terms of the will ;).
    I originally learned on a toy dog and it was my fault but success for me is that the training goes on me and that I have learned that it.
    Last edited by a moderator: May 12, 2009
  6. Dray

    Dray Bull Terrier Moderator

    Are your comments above based on the APBT or my beloved Bull Terriers who would jump though a plate glass window if thier favourite toy was been waved outside it;)
    I also personally do not see it as a sport but again that may be through my lack of understanding.
    I also do not understand the whole Gaming or Gameness bits that keep being discussed on the forum and maybe i made a mistake:no2:

  7. Dray

    Dray Bull Terrier Moderator

    Sorry I just don't see what you see :no2: Each to thier own i suppose and i can tell you are very passionate about what you do i just don't understand WHY you do it and what you get out of it ?:confused:

    Do you do weight lifting or something similar yourself Justus ?

    Dray x
  8. CoolHandJean

    CoolHandJean Krypto Super Dog

    Weight pull and game/gameness have nothing to do with one another. Gameness can only be determined in the pit, which is Illegal.

    Weight pull is about ability, drive, and determination.

    What do you see it as, if it's not a sport? The dog is the athlete, kind of like a Strongest man competition. Do you consider Strongest Man a sport? If not, then I guess I can see why you wouldn't consider weight pull one, either.

    Most of the things I have read have been for the APBT, though, truly any breed can do weight pull. Keep in mind these aren't small amounts of weight the dogs are pulling. If it was, then yes, probably any high prey/drive dog would go for a toy in a heart beat to pull, however, these are 1,000lbs Plus (454.5 kg+), the dog has to have an underlining desire to pull, at least, from what I have seen and read. I have seen American Bulldogs, APBTs, and JRTs pull, and they were all awesome to watch and excited to do it, no bait what-so-ever.

    It's not about What the owner gets out of it, but what the dog gets out of it. If the dog isn't enjoying it, then the dog shouldn't have to pull. Most people I know who weight pull their dogs do it, because one, it gives their working dogs an outlet for all their energy, and two, the majority of dogs I have seen pull love it. I have seen one or two dogs that were miserable, and their owner probably should just retire them, but the majority can't wait to get down there and work.
    Last edited by a moderator: May 12, 2009
  9. Justus

    Justus Little Dog

    I lifted weights ...I practiced 5 years Bodybuilding and fitness.I along with my dog string loads / Tires.
  10. Dray

    Dray Bull Terrier Moderator

    Lap Dogs

    :confused:So are you saying that Bull Terriers are made/built to do weight pull just like the APBT and the American Bulldogs ?
    I am asking you for your opinions and expert knowledge about Bull Terriers that do weight pulling:confused:not APBT :p
    I'm glad you enjoy your so called sport but i do not:no2: So in future i will just steer clear from this sort of post or maybe move from the UK where we exercise our dogs by running with them in the open countryside and maybe engaging in the odd bit of frisbee chasing or paddling in the lake and the nearest they get from hanging from a tree all depends on how fast the squirrel was:lol::lol::lol::lol:

    Geoff Capes was my hero:rolleyes::lol:

    Dray x
  11. Justus

    Justus Little Dog

    Dray, do you feel that the EB are not suitable for pulling and whether you think that there is no bullterrier's the game?
    I understand that the EB is not the same as APBT but they are exceptions ;).
    Agillity trained my dog, frisbee (beginnings), pulling, jumping, hanging, even knows how to swim :) .Put a few tricks.
    Last edited by a moderator: May 12, 2009
  12. CoolHandJean

    CoolHandJean Krypto Super Dog

    Dray, to be honest, I don't know enough about the Bull Terrier to tell you whether or not they are good for it. I know very little about the BT.

    May I ask what is it about the sport that you are so against? I asked because you are the first person I've really met who have has had a problem with it.
  13. Dray

    Dray Bull Terrier Moderator

    Hi CoolHandJean,
    I have been swatting up so as to answer your question as professionally as i can:lol: Then i thought why change the way i am just for people on a forum who don't even know me;)

    Personally i just don't like any part of what i see with regard to the weight pulling, lunging, spring poles or anything else along those lines:confused:
    I can not give you a scientific reason 'cause i don't have one :o All i do have is my own little opinion about why i own a dog and what i see as my dog enjoying itself while we are out and about in the fresh air walking through open countryside.
    It may just be because i am from the UK and maybe we see dogs more as companions Rather than working dogs:confused:
    We do enjoy showing our dogs but all they have to do is stand there or walk up and down a matt once or twice:lol:
    I have read reports of dogs having to be put down due to severe trauma after a few years of weight pulling and i also do not like to see a Bull Terrier bearing it's teeth or lunging for something as if to kill or harm it. I do not know if the pictures i have seen portray this in a bad light but either way i would Rather see my Bullies bow their heads when someone approaches them to be petted and then stand really calm:confused: I'm sorry i really don't know where to go with this as i do not want to upset anyone through my ignorance but at the same time i do not want to accept this as a sport no matter who was to educate me as it really turns my stomach to watch:(
    I hope everyone will not now see me in a different light as i believe it is up to the individual person what they do with their own dogs and the only reason i ended up posting was because every time i ignored a post by Justus i was not being myself and i hope that Justus understands that i am aware that she shows a lot of dedication and love for Ambra and is also extremely proud of her achievements thus far:sonn_u11:

    Lets just agree that we are all different and it is simply a case of each to their own:cool:

    Now then Justus is there any more pictures of you coaxing Ambra toward you:lol:

    Dray x

    I really hope this comes over as intended:sonn_u11:
  14. CoolHandJean

    CoolHandJean Krypto Super Dog

    That's fine. I respect your opinion. It was just something that I was curious about. :)

    I, too, enjoy walking my dogs along the countryside.
  15. Dray

    Dray Bull Terrier Moderator

    Ok so it must be just me but does anyone else not see anything wrong with studding an 44kg Bull Type Male to a 20-25kg Terrier type Female :no2:

    I am not asking anyone to disagree with anything that Justus does with her own dogs training regime but please don't make her or anyone else think that this is good breeding practice:no2:

  16. lovapit

    lovapit Little Dog

    Dray:) My comments to Justus were merely from observation only, my opinion, I know very little about the Bull Terrier breed and have read through the Bull Terrier thread often and from what I gather from your posts you are experienced with this breed and have more knowledge about this breed than most.

    My comments were'nt intended to encourage or support the type of breeding that Justus's dog came from, please dont be offended by my comments, I love the look of Amber, to me she is a beautiful,athletic Bull Terrier which I have never seen before, but in saying that Ive not seen many Bull Terriers, in the flesh even! but the ones I have, are usually fuller looking, sometimes fat, with minimal muscle tone.

    You on the other hand probably know the breed in and out, conformation, body structure etc, where as I dont! I dont have a clue :confused: I like what I see, infact I enjoy viewing Ambers pic's.

    I dont see anything wrong with what Justus does with Amber regarding her regime and training, but thats just my opinion.:)
  17. mr.clueless

    mr.clueless Good Dog

    justus thats a much better example of the breed than most that are around today and you have the dog in nice condition.
    may i ask how the dog is bred does it have any aricon bred dogs in its pedigree ?
    i saw some good dogs in this breed many years ago most came from the aricon line which produced a more athletic type of dog.
    thanks for any info
  18. Dray

    Dray Bull Terrier Moderator

    Everyone is entitled to their opinion and like you i was trying to voice mine and i have to say sorry if my written word suggests otherwise:o
    I look at Amber and i see a sweet Bullie but;
    Please forgive me but if the arch on Ambers top-line is through her over exposure to weight pulling with a breed that i feel is not structure capable in carrying out, then i have to go with my heart as well as my head and say that this is not the best form of exercises for any BT:no2:

    I like Amber, as i like all dogs but unfortunately, Bull Terriers do not have the same build as the APBT or the American Bulldog and never will:no2:
    A Bull Terrier supposed to have great substance but that should never be mistaken for fat:no2:

    I happen to know my Bull Terriers line right back to the 1850's, in it there is one particular Sire's line that in all those generations, only actually misses four Champions!
    I have heard of Amber's Grand Sire, or at least the Timar affix but as the Dam's sire was unknown, there ends that line of quality in my opinion.

    Now those of you who like a dog because it has four legs then let me join your group, but those of you who are judging any Bull Terriers, please, please have a look at the breed standard, either in the UK or in the States In fact anywhere in the world, after which, i am sure you will then judge all Bull Terriers as i do, which is not on a majorities opinion who have little to no experience, but on a life times work, the product of dedicated breed enthusiast's who know a good dog when they see one;)

    Thank you
    lovapit x

    Hi mr,clueless:)
    Amber does not have a pedigree! or at least according to the post and i would like to ask where it was that you gained all your BT knowledge from:confused:

    The great Mr Eric Stanley is responsible for the Aricon line and i think he would not be best pleased by your comments, even if they were meant as compliments:eek:

    Please remember also that as a breed the Bull Terrier has changed a lot over the last forty/fifty years and i will post some examples of top winning dogs from top quality kennels for everyone to see.

    Justus this is by no way a personnel attack on either Amber or yourself, it is clear for all to see that you and your girl have a very special bond and that all she does she does because she loves you and you are her Alpha. I just hope that you can also see it from my side of the fence:)

    All dogs, as with all human's, are not all fitness guru's but that does not mean that they are not athletic and very healthy:) I never want to see my dog's ribs but i will also not be arrogant enough to say that all Bull Terriers should be my way ? :sonn_u11:

    Dray x
  19. mr.clueless

    mr.clueless Good Dog

    Dray,with all due respect my question was to the owner of the dog not you so i dont know why your getting funny with me.
    Where did i gain my bull terrier knowledge ?? to be honest i dont really have any interest in english bull terriers the breed disgusts me but this one caught my attention as it looked a decent individual.
    As regards the " aricon " prefix....back in the early 80,s i saw a number of ebt,s that were decent looking dogs and most were bred from aricon dogs....however as you know over the last 30 years this breed of dog has declined probably more than any other and is now a joke and complete waste of time all at the hands of the good old english kennel club and their ludicrous breed standards much the same as staffordshire bull terriers and the completely embarrassing british bulldog.
    unfortunately with english bull terriers their breed councils and what not have become obssessed with having a dog that is " different " even if that is at the expense of health and bodily structure of the dogs....todays english bull terriers from the well known lines such as kilkalibur or whatever its called stand for eveything i detest in dog ownership,lazy dogs bred from lazy people with lazy minds more worried about lining their pockets with money than the good of a dog breed.
    As regards justus dog i feel it is like a breath of fresh air to see an english bull terrier owner with a bit of pride in their dog who doesnt just want to sit and rub their belly and feed them sweets before breeding it to the next most obscure egg shaped fat good for nothing dog to get money.
    who cares that the dog is not papered it is pedigree papers that created this mess ! i would rather see a happy healthy and lively dog with no papers than a useless fat freak with papers.....but thats just me.
    if the person wants to pull weights with their dog or climb trees then great anything that stimulates a dogs mind and body.....this after all is a bull terrier not a chihuaha or some other breed bred with no purpose and this is what sets the bull terrier breeds apart there will to succeed at anything put in front of them......or would you rather bull terriers were just an ornament only there to " look different "
    justus dog looks a very happy and very healthy dog in top condition.....something every bull terrier owner should strive for

    sorry if ive offended you dray but having answered my question that was not directed at you i guess you put yourself in the firing line so to speak.
  20. Dray

    Dray Bull Terrier Moderator

    Well mr,clueless,
    What can i say, how do i reply to such a post without it sounding arrogant. Let me try anyway.
    I was actually in-directly answering part of your question and in no way was i answering for Justus!
    It was also very clear for me to see that you had little or no breed experience and i was just joining in with a thread that i have been involved with from the start;)
    I would like to appologise to you though, as i actually did not realise, just how little you knew:rolleyes:

    I would like to continue to answer some of the points you've raised at a later date, i am a little pushed for time at the moment, please feel free to add your comments as and when you see fit, i will not be offended as like you say, it is your opinion and i respect the fact that you and anyone else has the right to their own, no matter how flawed :rolleyes:

    It is also good to see so much interest:sonn_u11:

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